From:   Cesar <>
Sent time:   Friday, November 04, 2011 10:07:23 AM
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Re: way cool infographic on the demographics of OWS,

On a practical, note could somebody ask them to remove it or at a minimum correct it ASAP?

Sent from phone


On Nov 4, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Harrison Schultz <> wrote:

A quick pragmatic comment...I am less than pleased with the fact that this infographic, which I didn't make but still happen to think looks cool, doesn't clearly communicate that this is traffic on as opposed to actual occupiers on the ground. 


I stand by my insult on your intelligence, having reconsidered your posts, just as you have stood by your assertion that I am a racist after far too many of my posts to this thread.  Your deliberate attempts to misconstrue empirical findings from this research which don't happen to fit your preconceived and highly prejudiced notions of what you think this movement should look like are far more racist than anything within the findings themselves.  I joined this movement precisely to oppose the sort of self-righteous willful ignorance you've demonstrate every time I've posted numbers because it's exactly the same sort of willful ignorance that enables Fox News and members of the 1% to deny climate change and rising unemployment rates.  I'll grant you that there's no scientifically reliable definition of race, and that continuing to use the category on surveys ultimately perpetuates the spurious belief in racial categories among the general population.  However I put out a call to meet, discuss a formal research and analytics committee and attempt to brainstorm of new ways to re-write that question (based on nationality), with the help of specialists on the subject of the sociology of race, which everyone including you ignored, which is precisely how I know that your accusations are based purely on spite as opposed to substance.          

I will not submit to moderation from any of the self-appointed moderators on this thread who seem to share your privileged belief that only white people are capable of racism, (which is just as false as your presumptuous assumption that I am white), since that would be tantamount to allowing more of your insidious racism to further spread throughout this movement.  I will not continue to share findings from this research on this thread since its way more trouble than its worth.  However I will remain on this thread in order to attack the basis of the privilege you seemed to have claimed in order to label myself, trusted colleagues, and random strangers I've never met on this thread as racists.

Anyone who dares to persistently accuse me or any of my colleagues of being a racist on grounds as ridiculously incoherent as Shaista's should not be surprised to receive the full measure of my contempt in return for their efforts.  

I'll keep this up as long as I have to, unless of course you bore me in to quitting first.  Your move,



On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Winter Siroco <> wrote:
...together and ignoring our internal problems and the insults that we inflict upon each other, and let's throw a few under the truck, some will survive.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:57 PM, rob hollander <> wrote:
It might have been more useful to release just the jobs, college, income and age data alone which show that it's the opposite of a bunch of unemployed kids: it's mostly people over 25, either gainfully employed, though underpaid, or trying to improve themselves in college, many of whom are both in school and working full time (at least 7% and quite possibly much more -- it's not explicit from the chart).

But the graphic as it is has no methodology, no background, minimal explanation, no example of the survey questionnaire, no effort to make any point with the data. I'd have to say the graphic qualifies as flaunting. 

Ah, well, the movement will survive. I'm with grim here -- learn from our mistakes and missed opportunities, but by all means let's keep moving forward together.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Jon Good <> wrote:

On Nov 3, 2011, at 2:47 PM, shaista husain <> wrote:

> And here it is JUST AS I THOUGHT --the official release---the
> demographic data of OWS ---released by MoveON!!!! yes you guessed
> it--the same folk we were taking about
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:01 PM, shaista husain <> wrote:
>> Thanks Grim- for calling me irrational. i think my writing is self
>> evident---please be the change you want to see in the world.
>> I still offer you some herbs for healing....
>> peace
>> shaista
>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:17 PM, gwomyn <> wrote:
>>> I have published the email thread as a public document if anyone would
>>> like to read it: after Shaista sent me an
>>> invitation to meet I made a mistaken assumption. Regardless, I have no
>>> wish to engage with a person who has spoken to myself and others with
>>> such irrationality.
>>> On Nov 3, 11:50 am, shaista husain <> wrote:
>>>> Being defined as an arab, by Lauren, then told that arabs are actually
>>> I have personal
>>>> threats from Grim "privately" sent to me, which i shall spare at the
>>>> moment--and really really disturbing threats. Perhaps this is the
>>>> reason why i have been so "edgy" and emotional and paranoid, when
>>>> someone tries to silence you by threatening to turn you over to the
>>>> police:

Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009