Subject: Re: [NYCGA Internet] Site Technology assessment
From: Sam Boyer
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 16:21:32 -0400
To: internet_working_group@googlegroups.com

so i feel bad stepping in late - i only made it down to zuccotti for the
first time on monday, and have since volunteered to building a site for
the media group, at thorin's request, designed to help them create a
more coherent aggregation of various media that's sprouting up all over
associated with #ows. i'll be doing that site in drupal, probably based
on the managing news distro.

i like evan's point about the debate playing out in practice. really,
there are plenty of syndication standards out there so we don't have to
(nor should we) decide on *a* technology - fact is, if we want tech folk
to be able to participate to the best of their ability, there's gonna
need to be a bit of "do what you know." fwiw, as someone who's
desperately interested bringing his experience to bear in supporting
this movement, even seeing this discussion had a chilling effect on my
enthusiasm - and i'm a drupalist. there's a TON of need out there, but i
think what makes the best sense is to maybe decide on a tech stack for
certain specific sites/projects, but trying to decide on one
"movement-wide" is a non-starter.

cheers
sam boyer

ps - i'm heading to portland this weekend, then san francisco next
weekend for pnwds (http://pnwdrupalsummit.org/) then badcamp
(http://2011.badcamp.net/), where we're going to be building the shit
out of that site for the media crew. i've got...well, credibility to
burn with the drupal community at large, and i'm pulling out ALL the
stops for #ows. to that end, i also have/had hopes to build a GA network
that could have subsites for each of the occupation areas, but now that
i see there's a new nycga.net site up, i am really hesitant to step on
what other folks have already been doing...so i'm headed to the
hackathon to hopefully meet some people who can tell me a bit more about
it, before my plane leaves. in three hours. :)

On 10/14/11 2:16 PM, Evan Wagner wrote:
We are building the permabank site (resource routing/sharing platform)
in Drupal, so we have the opportunity to let the debate play-out in
implementation.  Should be interesting!

Evan

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:56 PM, "Dr.Ron Suarez" <ron.suarez@loudfeed.com
<mailto:ron.suarez@loudfeed.com>> wrote:

Chaz,

For many people using Drupal would be like having a literacy test
before you can vote!

I know Drupal is more powerful, but that power comes with the tradeoff
in the ability to create flexibility for larger numbers of people to
control not just their own content, but how they want to enter it and
present it.

I was wondering how long it would take for the Drupal vs. WordPress
debate to rear its ugly head. We have created a multisite installation
and special applications could be created in Drupal by those who want
to use Drupal and reside at a subdomain. We are using Multisite
WordPress that will enable our Groups within our BuddyPress social
network to have their own site at their own subdomain. Having this in
WordPress makes it much more accessible to the masses of people who
want to be able to exercise more control over their own content and
how it is presented.

Drupal developers are much harder to find and much more expensive.
Specialized projects might be very appropriate targets for Drupal
development. Please don't force less technical people into a situation
where only a much smaller number of  people can make changes. If you
like Drupal, then you should build something useful with it.

Around 24 Million people use WordPress to blog.

@drron

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Ted Schulman
<<mailto:ted@tedschulman.com>ted@tedschulman.com
<mailto:ted@tedschulman.com>> wrote:

    Hi Chaz,

    I agree that we have to create a migration plan from the current
    wordpress site to a more dynamic cms. Internet and Open Source
    workgroups are currently setting up the hosting environment and
    toolset that will allow us to define a development and migration
    roadmap. Our methodology will include the 5D's:

    Discovery - who, what, where, why, when - these are some
    initial assessments.
    Define - what functionality is required
    Design - how the audience interacts with the system
    Develop - 
    Deploy - 

    We will be a more detailed methodology section to the FLO Open
    Source Workgroup webpage in the near future.

    Best,
    Ted


    On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Chaz
    <<mailto:ccheadle@gmail.com>ccheadle@gmail.com
    <mailto:ccheadle@gmail.com>> wrote:

          I would like to propose a serious consideration of Drupal
        for the
        website. I know that WordPress has been used to start the
        site. If we
        expect this site to grow in size and functionality we should
        consider
        the increased needs for features and content types. In my opinion
        WordPress is a very powerful blogging platform but I think our
        needs
        will outpace its capability in terms of required content types and
        features. Drupal, like WordPress is opensource with a huge
        developer
        network but also has a very strong enterprise level
        architecture and
        is used by extremely large and high-traffic websites. I believe
        Drupal's module system is more mature with a great focus on
        customization and security.

          As I think our site is and should be more than a blogging
        platform
        we should consider a highly developed CMS system to meet our
        future
        needs. Since we still seem to be in an early development stage
        of our
        new website I strongly urge a discussion and a needs
        assessment of the
        website in terms of technology and future expansion.

        Some of the needs addressed extremely well by Drupal*:
        -Menu systems (programmable)
        -Forms API (programmable API for creating and processing simple/
        complex forms (voting,surveys,creating custom interfaces for
        administrators, content data entry etc.)
        -Taxonomy driven content processing (manage and process
        content based
        on vocabulary/hierarchy)
        -Module support for other FLO technologies such as OpenLayers
        -Security and Access Control (Core level security and access
        control
        system for content and administration)
        Internationalization (multilingual support for menus and site
        content)
        Calender/Events system (integrate date driven
        events/calenders/email-
        list notifications into any content type)
        -Solid integration with Varnish/Pressflow (site caching for
        quicker
        page delivery for high traffic sites)
        -Views (custom content processing and display for any content
        type,
        display/customize content based on configurable filters- login,
        location, date, etc.)
        -CCK (create any content types beyond blogs/posts such as; bios,
        rotating articles, document library, company profiles, maps,
        featured
        events, etc etc etc.)
        -Multisite (ability to host multiple subdomains/sites with
        shared or
        separate user databases, partially or completely separate
         subsections
        for groups if desired)
        Themes (global and user preference based site themes
        Content publishing/unpublishing on any desired schedule
        (repeated, one
        time etc)

          Drupal, like WordPress relies on the addition of modules or
        plugins
        to add features to a site; niether one will serve our needs
        right out
        of the box. I have had a hard time finding equivalent plugins
        for some
        of these features in WordPress which is why I would like to
        ask for an
        evaluation.

          I would be willing to begin and share development lead on
        this if
        we feel Drupal is more appropriate solution for this website's
        architectural needs. Just like a WordPress version of this site we
        should have designers, content authors and developers working
        together. We should also keep the architecture/management of
        any site
        100% transparent so anyone looking for information on the content
        posting process or the technology behind it.

        * Disclaimer: I am a Drupal developer. I create and maintain
        Drupal
        modules for site administration and content publishing for a
        large,
        multisite Drupal installation- so I am much more familiar with its
        architecture than with WordPress'.

        I would not like to start an argument, but rather open a
        dialogue for
        an evaluation of the movement's web technology needs.

        Thanks for reading.

        chaz





-- 
Dr Ron Suarez
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President, Loud Feed (Ann Arbor + Brooklyn)
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