Subject: [NYCGA Internet] Re: PROPOSAL: GA Teleconferencing Multicast (@occupytechnology)
From: planetary_io
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: internet working group

Fuck, if we could just provide a central IPbased interface out to conf
downlinks & let each GA plug that into its own regional dial in. Local
#s would drive the cost way down for the downlink. Then we could
switch out providers as economics & service levels become clear, or
let GAs use their own local connections (should be a goal of ours in

On Oct 20, 12:42 pm, planetary_io <> wrote:
The PSTN and backbone dependency absolutely tears us apart inside.  We
remember the Great Fiber Overbuild & Spectrum Speculation that Wall
Street ran in the late 90's/early '00s.  Half that shit is unused and
we are paying for it four times over. All these little ways they
manage to fuck us for decades.

Pretty sure AMR-NB is exposed to app layer in iOS.  Anything >16 kb
for voice applications is just cruel.

We have reached out to some folks but we see a distressing focus in
the fringe telecom community on security problems we just don't see on
the ground.  Tor is great and all, but this is a project about
transparency. And it's still the corporate backbone, like it or not.
We are looking for more productive partners on this.

DIDW sounds interesting but those per-line costs are fucking brutal.
Wonder if we could use DIDW lines in (we'd need far fewer, 1-2 per
site) & feed output into a cheap teleconf focused more on large group
broadcast to provide PSTN downlink?

On Oct 20, 12:27 pm, Nathan Freitas <> wrote:

On 10/20/2011 02:31 PM, planetary_io wrote:

Outfuckingstanding.  What bit rate are you getting? MP3 is great for
interop for archiving, but as a streaming codec it's total dogshit.

Ha, yes. Using FFMPEG, I am encoding the Asterisk output to a 32kb
bitrate, 8khz sample rate, 16-bit mono.

You want something like QCELP or AMR-NB if any streaming protocol.

AMR-NB would be interesting, and possible I think. I know FFMPEG can
handle that.

Optimally an uncompressed / unlicensed storage container & codec too,
but we have to prioritize Interop for the People.

I can archive in OGG no problem, as well. I can provide an OGG stream
even, but most phones don't support that.

We'd like to set up a trial using E2E PSTN & terminal native dialer

Okay. My inbound channels currently come from $5 setup, $5
month for 2 simult inbound. You can add more inbound at more cost per.

Trust us when we say that the codec efficiency & noise cancellation
you get from the OEM image/chipset integration murders any over the
top VoIP solution.


We're looking into some SIP gateway providers but the much preferred
path - getting PSTN HW interfaces up on the Asterisk server seems
prohibitive from a cost & governance perspective.  That's why we were

Yeah... agreed. For inbound, DIDWW does a great job and cheap. I have
been using them for about two years off and on. I have not used them at
volume, only for a few channels at once.

Have you evaluated any indie teleconf services or SIP gateways?  Our
theoretical knowledge exceeds our knowledge of the commercial options.

Not sure how indie you mean, but DIDW and DIDW are low cost, on-demand
and flexible.

There are some more radical telecom folks within the indy* world, that I
can track down and see if they have more thoughts. Mostly once you
interface into the PSTN world, you don't have any options but dealing
with some sort of corporate entity.