Subject: [NYCGA Internet] Re: how does this relate to permabank?
From: Sam Zimmerman
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: internet working group

Thanks for these quick comments everyone.
A couple notes from me:

I filled out a Moveon-powered petition recently and was rapidly served
with a donation request. There are several occupy-themed petitions
circulating in facebook right now, for example:

All of these serve to build their donation database - basically, they
will be making money off occupy and using it for non-occupy ends.

Although this makes me queasy, if Moveon wants to contribute resources
and capacities directly to help occupy scale rapidly, that is a
discussion worth having isn't it?  As we are experiencing, it is an
extremely difficult thing to do with irregular troops.

The big caveat here is that Moveon is already has a seat at the
entrenched disfunctional political table and connecting that to occupy
might just be a bad idea message-wise.  The right is already itching
to prove that their same old enemies are behind all of this, for

So is there any interest in dialoging with  Daniel Mintz et al.,
saying that we are building our own tools like permabank, and are
there opportunities for Moveon to bolster that process?  for example,
I bet they have a decent server facility...

- Sam

On Oct 27, 10:09 pm, Chaz Cheadle <> wrote:
I am in complete agreement with Sam here.
We don't want to turn down any support, but we also want to keep our heads
about us and make well informed decisions when it comes to accepting that
support. We don't solicit support from party-affilliated or
politically-aligned organizations as we do not want to be beholden to them
for anything. We are here to make everyone's life better, not just one
On another note, we are working on a solution of our own that is OpenSource
and completely OWS run, called Permabank. It will serve the needs of
requesting and donating non-monetary goods for Occupyers.

Thank you though for sharing the link with us. It is nice to see that we're
making enough of an impact to get this kind of support.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Sam Zimmerman <>wrote:

ugh! I think Moveon glomming on to this movement and coopting the
occupy brand is incredibly sleazy. Their model is about passive
involvement - give us money and we will do the work of informing you,
lobbying for you and buying advertising in your behalf.  They are
circulating all sorts of OWS petitions, which then puts new people on
their solicitation lists. Moveon spends money with media corporations
to support Democrat politicians and causes. These tactics and overall
agenda do not align with the Occupy movement, which is about direct
expression and depriving corporate entities a stake in our governing
process.  If Daniel Mintz wants to contribute resources, can this this
be done within some context of consensus decisions?  Is it worth
asking?  I would be happy to be part of that discussion if there is
interest in having it.

- Sam

On Oct 27, 7:57 pm, "Charles Lenchner" <>

Here's another interesting online effort that's popped up around the
Wall Street movement: <>
, a
simple platform where people who want to give direct support to occupiers
need of things like blankets, batteries, sleeping bags and the like can
connect with each other. Built and supported by, the site is
starting to see some usage, with 187 items provided by 58 people to 8
so far. I spoke with Daniel Mintz, MoveOn's campaign director, who
some background about the project.

"The big challenge is less on getting people to help; the bigger
is on getting in touch with all the occupations," to make sure actual
are being expressed and met. He noted that such efforts were already
place around the hashtag #needsoftheoccupiers, but said that such a
decentralized approach had one challenge: "If someone wants to help their
local occupation, they may not know how to figure out which one is the
to help, to find a list of what's needed. There's no comprehensive
of all the occupy sites, no hub where you can type in your zipcode."

Creating such a database would be a "Sisyphean task," Mintz added, given
fluid so many of these local occupations appear to be. The Oakland
encampment was just broken up by police, for example, and the
group appears to have fallen apart due to internal strife. "This is more
about helping make connections quickly and easily before circumstances
shift," he said.

OccupyWishList doesn't just make it easy for people to list their needs
their willingness to meet them; Mintz says the site will also work to
that connections and commitments are actually met, or a need will get

Why is MoveOn doing this? "Over the course of the last year, our members,
like most Americans, have become more and more fed up with the discussion
Washington focused on a fake deficit crisis when there's a real
crisis facing the country," Mintz replied. "The OWS movement is a real
manifestation of anger and frustration that Washington isn't addressing
people's real problems, and it's no surprise that MoveOn members' top
priority right now is to find ways to stand in solidarity with those

"We felt like this was something obvious that we could provide. We're not
looking for credit. We're much more interested in getting this out there
making sure that it really helps. We have developers and project
so we felt we could throw it together in a couple of days."


Charles Lenchner, Organizing 2.0