Doesn't it piss you off that we aren't circulating petitions and raising
money? Money that could have helped complete Permabank faster? Money is just
labor, captured in time....
I can send a request to Mintz. Email me directly and I'll forward it.
[mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Sam Zimmerman
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:25 PM
To: internet working group
Subject: [NYCGA Internet] Re: how does this relate to permabank?
Thanks for these quick comments everyone.
A couple notes from me:
I filled out a Moveon-powered petition recently and was rapidly served with
a donation request. There are several occupy-themed petitions circulating in
facebook right now, for example:
All of these serve to build their donation database - basically, they will
be making money off occupy and using it for non-occupy ends.
Although this makes me queasy, if Moveon wants to contribute resources and
capacities directly to help occupy scale rapidly, that is a discussion worth
having isn't it? As we are experiencing, it is an extremely difficult thing
to do with irregular troops.
The big caveat here is that Moveon is already has a seat at the entrenched
disfunctional political table and connecting that to occupy might just be a
bad idea message-wise. The right is already itching to prove that their
same old enemies are behind all of this, for
So is there any interest in dialoging with Daniel Mintz et al., saying that
we are building our own tools like permabank, and are there opportunities
for Moveon to bolster that process? for example, I bet they have a decent
On Oct 27, 10:09 pm, Chaz Cheadle <cchea...@gmail.com> wrote:
I am in complete agreement with Sam here.
We don't want to turn down any support, but we also want to keep our
heads about us and make well informed decisions when it comes to
accepting that support. We don't solicit support from
party-affilliated or politically-aligned organizations as we do not
want to be beholden to them for anything. We are here to make
everyone's life better, not just one party.
On another note, we are working on a solution of our own that is
OpenSource and completely OWS run, called Permabank. It will serve the
needs of requesting and donating non-monetary goods for Occupyers.
Thank you though for sharing the link with us. It is nice to see that
we're making enough of an impact to get this kind of support.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Sam Zimmerman
ugh! I think Moveon glomming on to this movement and coopting the
occupy brand is incredibly sleazy. Their model is about passive
involvement - give us money and we will do the work of informing
you, lobbying for you and buying advertising in your behalf. They
are circulating all sorts of OWS petitions, which then puts new
people on their solicitation lists. Moveon spends money with media
corporations to support Democrat politicians and causes. These
tactics and overall agenda do not align with the Occupy movement,
which is about direct expression and depriving corporate entities a
stake in our governing process. If Daniel Mintz wants to contribute
resources, can this this be done within some context of consensus
decisions? Is it worth asking? I would be happy to be part of that
discussion if there is interest in having it.
On Oct 27, 7:57 pm, "Charles Lenchner" <clench...@organizing20.org>
Here's another interesting online effort that's popped up around
Wall Street movement: OccupyWishList.org
simple platform where people who want to give direct support to
need of things like blankets, batteries, sleeping bags and the
like can connect with each other. Built and supported by
MoveOn.org, the site is
starting to see some usage, with 187 items provided by 58 people
so far. I spoke with Daniel Mintz, MoveOn's campaign director, who
some background about the project.
"The big challenge is less on getting people to help; the bigger
is on getting in touch with all the occupations," to make sure
are being expressed and met. He noted that such efforts were
place around the hashtag #needsoftheoccupiers, but said that such
a decentralized approach had one challenge: "If someone wants to
help their local occupation, they may not know how to figure out
which one is the
to help, to find a list of what's needed. There's no comprehensive
of all the occupy sites, no hub where you can type in your zipcode."
Creating such a database would be a "Sisyphean task," Mintz added,
fluid so many of these local occupations appear to be. The Oakland
encampment was just broken up by police, for example, and the
group appears to have fallen apart due to internal strife. "This
is more about helping make connections quickly and easily before
circumstances shift," he said.
OccupyWishList doesn't just make it easy for people to list their
their willingness to meet them; Mintz says the site will also work
that connections and commitments are actually met, or a need will
Why is MoveOn doing this? "Over the course of the last year, our
members, like most Americans, have become more and more fed up
with the discussion
Washington focused on a fake deficit crisis when there's a real
crisis facing the country," Mintz replied. "The OWS movement is a
real manifestation of anger and frustration that Washington isn't
addressing people's real problems, and it's no surprise that
MoveOn members' top priority right now is to find ways to stand in
solidarity with those protesters."
"We felt like this was something obvious that we could provide.
We're not looking for credit. We're much more interested in
getting this out there
making sure that it really helps. We have developers and project
so we felt we could throw it together in a couple of days."
Charles Lenchner, Organizing 2.0