Subject: RE: [NYCGA Internet] Re: how does this relate to permabank?
From: "Charles Lenchner" <>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:33:34 -0400
To: <>

Doesn't it piss you off that we aren't circulating petitions and raising
money? Money that could have helped complete Permabank faster? Money is just
labor, captured in time....
I can send a request to Mintz. Email me directly and I'll forward it.


-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Sam Zimmerman
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:25 PM
To: internet working group
Subject: [NYCGA Internet] Re: how does this relate to permabank?

Thanks for these quick comments everyone.
A couple notes from me:

I filled out a Moveon-powered petition recently and was rapidly served with
a donation request. There are several occupy-themed petitions circulating in
facebook right now, for example:

All of these serve to build their donation database - basically, they will
be making money off occupy and using it for non-occupy ends.

Although this makes me queasy, if Moveon wants to contribute resources and
capacities directly to help occupy scale rapidly, that is a discussion worth
having isn't it?  As we are experiencing, it is an extremely difficult thing
to do with irregular troops.

The big caveat here is that Moveon is already has a seat at the entrenched
disfunctional political table and connecting that to occupy might just be a
bad idea message-wise.  The right is already itching to prove that their
same old enemies are behind all of this, for

So is there any interest in dialoging with  Daniel Mintz et al., saying that
we are building our own tools like permabank, and are there opportunities
for Moveon to bolster that process?  for example, I bet they have a decent
server facility...

- Sam

On Oct 27, 10:09 pm, Chaz Cheadle <> wrote:
I am in complete agreement with Sam here.
We don't want to turn down any support, but we also want to keep our 
heads about us and make well informed decisions when it comes to 
accepting that support. We don't solicit support from 
party-affilliated or politically-aligned organizations as we do not 
want to be beholden to them for anything. We are here to make 
everyone's life better, not just one party.
On another note, we are working on a solution of our own that is 
OpenSource and completely OWS run, called Permabank. It will serve the 
needs of requesting and donating non-monetary goods for Occupyers.

Thank you though for sharing the link with us. It is nice to see that 
we're making enough of an impact to get this kind of support.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Sam Zimmerman

ugh! I think Moveon glomming on to this movement and coopting the 
occupy brand is incredibly sleazy. Their model is about passive 
involvement - give us money and we will do the work of informing 
you, lobbying for you and buying advertising in your behalf.  They 
are circulating all sorts of OWS petitions, which then puts new 
people on their solicitation lists. Moveon spends money with media 
corporations to support Democrat politicians and causes. These 
tactics and overall agenda do not align with the Occupy movement, 
which is about direct expression and depriving corporate entities a 
stake in our governing process.  If Daniel Mintz wants to contribute 
resources, can this this be done within some context of consensus 
decisions?  Is it worth asking?  I would be happy to be part of that 
discussion if there is interest in having it.

- Sam

On Oct 27, 7:57 pm, "Charles Lenchner" <>

Here's another interesting online effort that's popped up around 
Wall Street movement: 
, a
simple platform where people who want to give direct support to 
need of things like blankets, batteries, sleeping bags and the 
like can connect with each other. Built and supported by, the site is
starting to see some usage, with 187 items provided by 58 people 
to 8
so far. I spoke with Daniel Mintz, MoveOn's campaign director, who
some background about the project.

"The big challenge is less on getting people to help; the bigger
is on getting in touch with all the occupations," to make sure 
are being expressed and met. He noted that such efforts were 
place around the hashtag #needsoftheoccupiers, but said that such 
a decentralized approach had one challenge: "If someone wants to 
help their local occupation, they may not know how to figure out 
which one is the
to help, to find a list of what's needed. There's no comprehensive
of all the occupy sites, no hub where you can type in your zipcode."

Creating such a database would be a "Sisyphean task," Mintz added, 
fluid so many of these local occupations appear to be. The Oakland 
encampment was just broken up by police, for example, and the
group appears to have fallen apart due to internal strife. "This 
is more about helping make connections quickly and easily before 
circumstances shift," he said.

OccupyWishList doesn't just make it easy for people to list their 
their willingness to meet them; Mintz says the site will also work 
that connections and commitments are actually met, or a need will 
get relisted.

Why is MoveOn doing this? "Over the course of the last year, our 
members, like most Americans, have become more and more fed up 
with the discussion
Washington focused on a fake deficit crisis when there's a real
crisis facing the country," Mintz replied. "The OWS movement is a 
real manifestation of anger and frustration that Washington isn't 
addressing people's real problems, and it's no surprise that 
MoveOn members' top priority right now is to find ways to stand in 
solidarity with those protesters."

"We felt like this was something obvious that we could provide. 
We're not looking for credit. We're much more interested in 
getting this out there
making sure that it really helps. We have developers and project
so we felt we could throw it together in a couple of days."


Charles Lenchner, Organizing 2.0