Subject: [NYCGA-IWG] Re: [Ows_solutions] silent chat at spokes council
From: planetary
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:37:36 -0800
To: White Hat
CC: "internet_working_group@googlegroups.com" <internet_working_group@googlegroups.com>, "ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org" <ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org>

You do realize that Vibe is a smartphone application, right? And that on the cheaper SP platform (Android) it's not even available in Android Market - so the download process is far more involved and technical?

We do understand the purpose of Vibe.  What we are trying to tell you is we tested those use cases over a period of time, and we found that they worked poorly, and suspect you may find the same. Do with that anecdotal information what you will.  

"We" are referring to ourselves - planetary - in our collective aspect, which we do in public address as affiliates prefer to be Pseudonymous and we do not individually attribute contributions.  



On Nov 16, 11, at 7:11 AM, White Hat wrote:


ok, thanks for clarifying that your are not talking about irc over mobile web.  i'm proposing testing vibe at tonight's or an upcoming spokes council meeting.  your are counter proposing jabber client apps for that?  

with apps one has to overcome the hurdle of people downloading/installing on their phone (which over the past 4 years is generally increasing among the public).  as a one-to-many communication medium like twitter, vibe has more use cases (both within ows and in general) than irc clients and i would therefore argue more likely to be used post download.

incidentally, who is "we"?  you, a company, or the internet working group?

white hat


From: planetary <planetary@plntry.net>
To: White Hat <whitehatoccupywallst@yahoo.com>
Cc: "internet_working_group@googlegroups.com" <internet_working_group@googlegroups.com>; "ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org" <ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ows_solutions] silent chat at spokes council

PS: we are talking IRC over free mobile smartphone clients (AndroIRC et al), not over mobile Web / xHTML / Webkit. Critical difference & yes over mobile Web chat is garbage.  But proposing Vibe already assumes a SP/Android terminal so IRC, XMPP, Jabber client apps using signaling directly over TCP / UDP are still all on the table.



On Nov 15, 11, at 2:40 PM, White Hat wrote:

this test idea is for the spokes council at 52 walker without need for audio.  it's for a mobile solution (chat via mobile web not particularly good experience in my opinion).

what do you mean by "shaky 1-way" and "poor small-area 'geofencing'."?

white hat


From: planetary <planetary@plntry.net>
To: White Hat <whitehatoccupywallst@yahoo.com>
Cc: "internet_working_group@googlegroups.com" <internet_working_group@googlegroups.com>; "ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org" <ows_solutions@freenetworkfoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ows_solutions] silent chat at spokes council

Visual chat is 1000% the best way to "talk amongst yourselves" on a group broadcast scenario like a GA, & this design pattern is probably the one to embrace one way or the other. 

No need to mess with a shaky 1-way anon system like Vibe, though, especially with its poor small-area 'geofencing'. 

Just spin up an ad hoc site-specific IRC channel for each session & post logs.  You could ensure boundaries in any number of ways, most simply by just giving out #chan / key to folks in the room & capping participants to roughly the size of the physical participant crowd.  

You could also solve the audio issue by using something like Nate Freitas' OneStreetMic to broadcast the stack via dial-in # to an MP3 stream, and let individual users dial into that MP3 stream on headphones should they not be able to hear.  (Think of the UN translator headphone thingies.)   OneStreetMic limits to 10 min bursts & we are not sure what state the project is in as of this writing, but it's out there & we've seen it work. 

It shares a lot with our Superassembly loop system, except in the single-site context:
(1) the chat channel is for comms between participants, not a closed coord channel for facilitators across GAs
(2) the floor feed is used to reinforce local sound, rather than feed sound to another site. 

If we had more time, we could probably just set you up something on our prototype Peoples' PBX, but that would take at ~ a week or so to get enough folks & dial plans set up.


On Nov 15, 11, at 1:00 PM, White Hat wrote:

if last night's is any indication, the spokes council meetings are very lively gatherings and it can be difficult to hear the person on stack with all the background chatter.

i would like to propose trying a "silent chat" option during the spokes council.  one where people can easily chat with others present at 52 walker, whether to express opinions about a proposal or add information that may not be covered in the time remaining.  this would be using the vibe smartphone app, where messages posted as"whispers" would only be visible at/around 52 walker.

i discussed it last night with marisa and another person from facilitation and they are interested in possibly trying it at tomorrow's spokes council.

is this something the internet working group would get behind testing at a spokes council?  

white hat

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