From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Wednesday, October 05, 2011 7:46:04 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] So Real it Hurts - Notes on Occupy Wall Street: Manissa McCleave Maharawal on struggling with racism
 

Thanks a million Jackie, ---LOVE!!!!!!!

Yes, i know its happening, how can it NOT happen??? LOL> but our

brothers and sisters in the occupation need to be less dismissive-- we

do bring anti-racist global perspective on all things anti-wall

street.

 

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Jackie DiSalvo <jdisalvo@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> Outreach to People of Color is happening

>

>

>

> See pococcupywallstreet.tumblr.com and  join

> http://www.peopleofcolororganize.com/activism/organizing/call-people-color-occupywallstreet-people-color-working-group/

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: september17@googlegroups.com [mailto:september17@googlegroups.com] On

> Behalf Of shaista husain

> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:35 AM

> To: september17@googlegroups.com

> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] So Real it Hurts - Notes on Occupy Wall

> Street: Manissa McCleave Maharawal on struggling with racism

>

>

>

> Yes, Thanks for posting this, i felt same way since day one, lack of

>

> immigrant and people of color, as well as the dismissing of efforts to

>

> organize here to be more actively inclusive. Manissa as well as many

>

> other immigrants have come together, we had a meeting two nights ago

>

> on how to constructively address this problem. We would like to join

>

> the outreach efforts to diversify the body and create working group on

>

> global democracy and economics that stand in solidarity with

>

> occupations across the world who reflect our needs for global justice

>

> against wall street and its allies, the pentagon, the UN/NATO--we do

>

> not see wall street separate from the imperialist state apparatus. We

>

> live day to day in the dismissive culture of american chauvinism, we

>

> face insidious forms of outright and silenced discrimination, we are

>

> struggling to participate in this occupation so that issues of race,

>

> immigration, gender are not sidellined but part of the center core

>

> practice of decolonizing wall street. We are part of this occupation.

>

> We stand in solidarity. We need to discuss ways to outreach more

>

> people of color and address issues of race and immigrant rights here

>

> where our voices can be welcomed. YEs, these politics are "finance"

>

> related--as is the war on terror- as is the prison hunger strike and

>

> requires a solid understanding of how marginalized communities must be

>

> actively included in the outreach efforts and once people come in they

>

> are welcomed and included. This is why i proposed a working group on

>

> Global Democracy and Economics (perhaps as part of the Education

>

> Working group, as well as outreach--and media--across the spectrum of

>

> working groups) with a clear aim and goal to include minority groups

>

> and disenfranchised peoples into the protest movement, in every

>

> sector--as NATURAL ALLIES--and participants.

>

> in solidarity,

>

> Shaista

>

>

>

>

>

> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Michael Friedman <lycophidion@gmail.com>

> wrote:

>

>> http://www.leftturn.org/so-real-it-hurts-notes-occupy-wall-street

>

>>

>

>> So Real it Hurts - Notes on Occupy Wall Street

>

>> By:

>

>> Manissa McCleave Maharawal

>

>> Date Published:

>

>> October 4, 2011

>

>>

>

>> I first went down to Occupy Wall Street last Sunday, almost a week

>

>> after it had started. I didn't go down before because I, like many of

>

>> my other brown friends, was wary of what we had heard or just intuited

>

>> that it was mostly a young, white male scene. When I asked friends

>

>> about it they said different things: that it was really white; that it

>

>> was all people they didn't know; and that they weren't sure what was

>

>> going on. But after hearing about the arrests and police brutality on

>

>> Saturday, September 24th and after hearing that thousands of people

>

>> had turned up for their march I decided I needed to see this thing for

>

>> myself.

>

>> [.....]

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Michael Friedman, Ph.D.

>

>> Visiting Scientist

>

>> Sackler Institute for Comparative Genomics

>

>> American Museum of Natural History

>

>> 79th Street and Central Park West

>

>> New York, NY 10024

>

>> Cell: 718-812-4246

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 6:32 PM,  <september17@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>

>>>   Today's Topic Summary

>

>>>

>

>>> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/september17/topics

>

>>>

>

>>> Sound Permit [2 Updates]

>

>>> Direct Participatory Democratic Network - Where Revolution Streches in

>>> the

>

>>> Horizon [5 Updates]

>

>>> OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1 [3 Updates]

>

>>> Propaganda [2 Updates]

>

>>> The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd: Workhouse PR [3

>

>>> Updates]

>

>>> persons running wearethe99percent.tumblr.com [1 Update]

>

>>> Welcome Flyer [1 Update]

>

>>> Wall Street is War Street: Antiwar rally on Sat, Oct 15 moved to OWS [5

>

>>> Updates]

>

>>> Miami Herald - Phone interview - TODAY [2 Updates]

>

>>> URGENT: Safer Spaces and Non-violence [1 Update]

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Sound Permit

>

>>>

>

>>> jemcgloin@verizon.net Oct 04 04:42PM -0500 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Here's an article about the power of the human mic. I also think the

>>> human

>

>>> mic is part of our magic and I think we should keep it.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.thenation.com/blog/163767/we-are-all-human-microphones-now?rel=emailNation

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> Oct 04 06:22PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> The human mic, which is so patiently and tenderly transmitting different

>

>>> points of view, is one of the most moving things to witness at OWS.

>

>>>

>

>>> It is however, inefficient in larger crowds.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Direct Participatory Democratic Network - Where Revolution

>>> Streches

>

>>> in the Horizon

>

>>>

>

>>> "Richard S." <chardsinger@yahoo.com> Oct 04 02:19PM -0700 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Although I am not an active participant or Liberty Plaza Park camper

>

>>> right now, I cannot resist answering some of the messages/ideas

>

>>> expressed on this e-mail list. If people feel I shouldn't be doing

>

>>> so, just let me know...

>

>>>

>

>>> Ale, I have two concerns when I read your description/message below.

>

>>> One is that in your idea about why we are marching (and I still can

>

>>> include myself in that "we" because I have been marching with many of

>

>>> you a lot of the time), you seem to have forgotten about the very

>

>>> crushing, real, concrete economic hardship that is being inflicted on

>

>>> so many of us, about the crisis of unemployment in a society in which

>

>>> employment is required - at least at some point - for survival (and is

>

>>> also used by many as a measure of one's worthiness to participate in

>

>>> society), and about the absurd inequality of our economic system. I

>

>>> thought inequality was one of the main reasons that we are marching.

>

>>> So, I am always baffled by your repeated insistence on dropping

>

>>> "egalite" from the "song" that you think we should chant.

>

>>>

>

>>> Secondly, I love the idea of general assemblies spreading throughout

>

>>> the world to practice and create direct participatory democracy.

>

>>> However, I hope that the concept of direct, participatory democracy

>

>>> being pursued does not have to include all the features of consensus

>

>>> process (or a particular kind of consensus process) that have been

>

>>> popular with activist groups for a while. (People who don't know say

>

>>> this is all new, but I know it isn't. When I first joined the GA, I

>

>>> was surprised at how many details and gimmicks in the process were

>

>>> identical to what I'd seen in Direct Action Network a dozen years

>

>>> ago.) My biggest fear in this area is with regard to the danger that

>

>>> consensus process has begun to be seen as a necessary ingredient in

>

>>> direct democracy (which it most certainly is not). I have heard that

>

>>> the GAs are really falling back on a form of majority voting pretty

>

>>> often anyway (is this true?), but I think that the emphasis on

>

>>> consensus, and the equation of many people (especially the newer

>

>>> activists) between consensus and "real democracy" would be a drag on

>

>>> the effectiveness and popularity of general assemblies in general. I

>

>>> am also concerned that the movement for democratic assemblies might be

>

>>> dragged down by the numerous gimmicks that are peculiar to this trend

>

>>> in process, but which I don't see as necessary - e.g., everything from

>

>>> "vibes watching" to certain identity-based concepts of the progressive

>

>>> stack to the twinkling of fingers (I don't mind "twinkling," I do it

>

>>> myself :) - but a lot of people don't see that as necessary at all).

>

>>>

>

>>> Because of time limits, I can't really comment adequately re. other

>

>>> thoughts that have occurred to me. However, I will add that I don't

>

>>> see all concerns related to all different "dissent social

>

>>> movements" (which is a broad enough category to be very changeable and

>

>>> debatable) as being "points" from which the social struggle and

>

>>> eventual revolution (I hope) to oppose and replace the present social-

>

>>> economic system can be waged with equal significance or

>

>>> effectiveness. (Hoping that sentence is not too convoluted, but

>

>>> again, my eloquence in this matter is limited by time, as I am a very

>

>>> slow writer.) And while I know this is a terrible heresy here and

>

>>> now, I do think that one "concern" and source of struggle that can

>

>>> unite the broadest range of people in a struggle against the root of

>

>>> our problems is class. I would say, "class" as a concept that can be

>

>>> debated, studied, updated beyond the usual stereotypical assumptions,

>

>>> but class nonetheless, based on people's economic role in the

>

>>> society. (Call me a dated old Marxist, if you like - though I was an

>

>>> anarchist activist first, well acquainted with these many supposedly

>

>>> "new" approaches a good number of years ago.)

>

>>>

>

>>> And, on a related point - or back to the first point - I also kind of

>

>>> thought we were marching to address issues of economic power and

>

>>> control that have been neglected by fashionable activist movements in

>

>>> our area for decades, which is one major reason we find ourselves in

>

>>> the present social disaster.

>

>>>

>

>>> Anyway, I hope this message has not been too cumbersome, and once

>

>>> again, if I am too detached from the group (at least in physical

>

>>> presence) to be offering such lengthy and somewhat dissenting

>

>>> opinions, you (all) should just tell me, and I will take that into

>

>>> major consideration. :)

>

>>>

>

>>> Richard

>

>>>

>

>>> On Oct 4, 3:36 pm, "Alexandre Machado De Sant'Anna Carvalho"

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> Oct 04 05:32PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> We need a one-line SOMETHING. I don't care if it's a demand, a

>>> definition,

>

>>> a purpose, or whatever, but we need a snappy, inspiring, and easily

>

>>> communicable idea so people can quickly understand what we're about. "We

>

>>> are a human struggle against oppression in all its forms" is a good

>>> start,

>

>>> but it's kind of a tounge-twister. I firmly believe we can come up with

>

>>> something of a similar sentiment that so simple, so universal, so

>

>>> immediately true that even my idiot cousin in the Tea Party will hear it

>>> and

>

>>> say "wow, that makes way more sense than this Tea Party shit" and come

>>> join

>

>>> this movement. A simple idea that can spread like wildfire.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Solidarity,

>

>>>

>

>>> Jon

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> *Tea Partiers themselves are not always bad people, they're just

>>> confused,

>

>>> angry, and so eager to do SOMETHING that they're grabbing onto the toxic

>

>>> messages of hatred that Big Business is packaging as a populist movement.

>

>>> It's exactly the same way that the fascists were able to take power in

>>> the

>

>>> 1930s: by appealing to the worst instincts of people. If we can figure

>>> out

>

>>> how to inspire people's best instincts instead, they will come to us in

>

>>> droves.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Alexandre Machado De Sant'Anna Carvalho <

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Will Gauss <willgauss@gmail.com> Oct 04 05:42PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> "True freedom for all people, forever."

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from my iPhone

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Gabriel Johnson <gabjoh2@gmail.com> Oct 04 06:01PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Against the massive concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a

>

>>> select few.

>

>>>

>

>>> --glj

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> Oct 04 06:20PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> I actually think any economic issues are wholly subsumed by environmental

>

>>> issues - you can't eat money - having said that, perhaps it's time for a

>

>>> movie break (even if it is mainly economic)!

>

>>>

>

>>> http://witsendnj.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupyeverywhere.html

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1

>

>>>

>

>>> shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> Oct 04 03:58PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Goals/demands/visions are all the same thing, it is a program, a

>>> collective

>

>>> consciousness and raison d'etre, some basic agreements of good faith

>>> between

>

>>> ourselves--there is much to celebrate here, unity is success. Now, this

>

>>> collective consciousness is not fixed but in transformation. We need NOT

>>> be

>

>>> afraid of demands/goals/visions/program, as we have already accomplished

>>> a

>

>>> major democratic feat : we have established that it will be a LIVING

>

>>> DOCUMENT; that it can by modified in time, elaborated upon, examined,

>

>>> clarified and worked out according to lessons collectively learned. We

>

>>> should begin to take ourselves in good faith and put forth a basic

>>> agenda,

>

>>> demands, etc, whatever we decide how little or how much, even if that is

>

>>> just posing certain questions to the media to the world, to address the

>

>>> public audience---our goal is to increase our base and support in the

>

>>> public, ie. grow in number--which we must do through our outreach. With

>>> this

>

>>> purpose in mind, using our own instruments of dissemination, we are quite

>

>>> capable of conveying tools of empowerment to the public at large--our

>

>>> success lies not only internal dialogue and diversity, but in our public

>

>>> support and its growth and further transformation.... open ended

>>> platform.

>

>>>

>

>>> One thing to always keep in mind, that is currently missing in our day to

>

>>> day program, is a sober examination of the international GA's, their

>>> lessons

>

>>> and their successes. We must stand together with international

>>> occupations,

>

>>> not only do they give us valuable tools, but also inform us on economic

>

>>> models for consideration. These alliances increase our constituency

>

>>> exponentially on a global level and also correct us from playing into

>

>>> american chauvinism, something that we all take for granted. WE MUST

>>> STAND

>

>>> in solidarity with global protest movements in the world. We are not

>>> alone.

>

>>> We need to address our economy in context of demands emerging from other

>

>>> occupations as well as our domestic crisis. This is what WALL STREET and

>>> the

>

>>> US WAR machine completely fails to do. This is where our goals and

>>> demands

>

>>> not only become meaningful on a national level, but in solidarity with

>>> other

>

>>> GAs we find that our solutions are not only really possible, completely

>

>>> feasible and rational, but they are in harmony with a future that must

>>> come

>

>>> to pass on this planet.

>

>>> One of the main goals of forming a working group on Economy and Global

>

>>> Democracy would be to ally ourselves and build bridges with other other

>

>>> occupations, exchange notes, present this to the body, also good tidings

>>> of

>

>>> victory as well as lessons mistakes crisis, we have 90 cities in the US

>>> to

>

>>> also ally ourselves with. All news of our brothers and sisters fighting

>

>>> under more austere more violent, more life and death situations so

>

>>> courageously, this gives us more power and legitimacy than any newspaper

>>> in

>

>>> the world. Let us reverberate globally in outrage and welcome all

>>> protest,

>

>>> reclaim our place in the world that has been hijacked by greedy

>>> warmongers,

>

>>> imperialists, who neither represent us nor profit us in any way and

>>> destroy

>

>>> movements for progress and democracy all across the earth. We are global

>

>>> democratic citizens. This is a global movement.

>

>>> Peace and Love,

>

>>> Shaista

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:07PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> I do not expect nothing but populist concesions. If they start to work

>>> for

>

>>> the people tomorrow, great, it will advance our goals, but our strategy

>>> is

>

>>> to grow our power.

>

>>> Cesar

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from phone

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com> Oct 04 05:58PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> But we aren't protesting one thing, like the Iraq war. If you look at

>

>>> photos of the signs people carry, their are multiple issues. I have

>>> argued

>

>>> that we could make the one demand - get corporate money out of politics -

>

>>> and many of the other issues would, and should, be resolved in a real

>

>>> democracy according to what the majority of the people want v. what will

>

>>> profit the plutocracy greatest.

>

>>>

>

>>> However there is quite a bit of resistance to boiling it all down to one

>

>>> demand on the part of some of the most active and passionate occupiers,

>>> and

>

>>> to allow it to be an evolving and organic process - and so I tend to

>>> think

>

>>> it's up to the press, like Matt T., to explain THAT position, rather than

>

>>> pressure OWS to capitulate.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Propaganda

>

>>>

>

>>> <frogman@networkpimps.com> Oct 04 05:48PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Here is another FOX News story that can have a negative impact. Who

>

>>> recruited Anonymous' involvement anyway?

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/10/04/hacker-group-anonymous-threatens-to-attack-stock-exchange/

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> Oct 04 02:55PM -0700 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Nobody did. They're acting on their own, the plan is stupid. I know

>

>>> the details of it and I'm pretty sure it's either a false flag op or

>

>>> something put together by a clueless group.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd: Workhouse

>>> PR

>

>>>

>

>>> jemcgloin@verizon.net Oct 04 04:27PM -0500 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> This sound sangerous to me also

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/04/11, Doug Singsen<dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> +1

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from my phone

>

>>>

>

>>> On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary

>>> of

>

>>> this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our

>>> disposal,

>

>>> but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations

>

>>> presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation.

>

>>>

>

>>> Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy

>

>>> Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA.

>

>>>

>

>>> Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions

>>> and

>

>>> ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's

>>> antithetical

>

>>> to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or

>

>>> consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking

>>> the

>

>>> process of defining us.

>

>>>

>

>>> I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large

>>> numbers

>

>>> of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in

>>> the

>

>>> media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably

>>> not

>

>>> "represent" us in any sense of the word.

>

>>>

>

>>> Solidarity,

>

>>>

>

>>> Jon

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:20 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Has anyone else from this list been in discussion with Workhouse PR? Just

>

>>> trying to understand if we are outsourcing "PR" work.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:14 AM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd:

>>> Workhouse

>

>>> PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Certainly and of course! Please be sure to keep me in the loop going

>

>>> forward, thanks.

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Rebecca,

>

>>>

>

>>> Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17

>>> listserv?

>

>>>

>

>>> I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations

>>> going

>

>>> on about PR.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Justin,

>

>>>

>

>>> Nice to meet you briefly today.

>

>>>

>

>>> Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He

>

>>> was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks

>

>>> Fifth Avenue.

>

>>>

>

>>> He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time.

>

>>> Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they

>>> did

>

>>> about Saturday's protests:

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-10-03_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-from-pr-firm

>

>>>

>

>>> We should both be in touch with these folks, right?

>

>>>

>

>>> Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do

>>> the

>

>>> same.

>

>>>

>

>>> Be well,

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:55 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Fwd: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: rebeccaction@gmail.com

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: William Schwartz <will.js1@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:49 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Well they are volunteering their help. I just chatted them up on twitter.

>

>>> There was an article in the New York Post about it too.

>

>>>

>

>>> William Schwartz

>

>>>

>

>>> 917.385.5047

>

>>>

>

>>> Connect!

>

>>>

>

>>> http://twitter.com/2William

>

>>>

>

>>> On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Are you joking!

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> jemcgloin@verizon.net Oct 04 04:36PM -0500 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> I actually think your stategy is backward. The way i see it first you get

>

>>> large numbers of people to join by showing how reasonable you are. Then

>>> when

>

>>> the numbers are big enough, they will feel their oats, get impatient, and

>

>>> start demanding more than you could have imagined. (Never underestimate

>>> mob

>

>>> mentality.) But if you talk about overthrowing governments, capitalism or

>

>>> wholesale changes, most of the 99% will be scared off, and we'll never

>>> have

>

>>> the power we need to affect real change. In order to fight the global

>

>>> coporations I estimate we need a minimum of 15 million Americans on the

>

>>> street. There are not 15 million radical socialist/anarchists in the US.

>>> We

>

>>> need people without political agendas, but with anger at coporations.

>

>>>

>

>>> I am also wary of using PR firms, by the way. (Athough the fact that

>>> anyone

>

>>> can call and be a "spokesman" shows one of our weaknesses.)

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/04/11, Snafu<snafu@thething.it> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Just heard a guy at the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC, who called in as an

>>> OWS

>

>>> "spokesperson" and claimed to be "in charge of security at the park." The

>

>>> radio show was about how Wall Street traders and workers feel about the

>

>>> occupation. He said that he wanted the radio conversation to happen in

>>> the

>

>>> square (on which I can agree) and then added that OWS is not about class

>

>>> warfare but about getting things done and bringing about change. The

>>> overall

>

>>> tone was that of a reassuring middle-class guy speaking to middle

>>> America.

>

>>>

>

>>> While this communicative style may help expand our ranks, it will also

>>> help

>

>>> change the social composition of the movement in such a way that if any

>

>>> reforms are ever passed, they will be probably so watered-down that they

>

>>> will change in fact nothing. I am not sure how spokespersons are selected

>

>>> and whether this guy (who claimed to have appeared on several TV programs

>>> as

>

>>> well) has anything to do with the PR firm mentioned in this thread.

>

>>>

>

>>> But I want to raise the point that this way of communicating can have

>

>>> serious political consequences, some of which may not be that desirable.

>>> I

>

>>> think we should try and select spokespersons who are able to express a

>>> more

>

>>> radical point of view in a reasonable way.

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/4/11 9:25 AM, Doug Singsen wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> +1

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from my phone

>

>>>

>

>>> On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary

>>> of

>

>>> this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our

>>> disposal,

>

>>> but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations

>

>>> presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation.

>

>>>

>

>>> Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy

>

>>> Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA.

>

>>>

>

>>> Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions

>>> and

>

>>> ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's

>>> antithetical

>

>>> to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or

>

>>> consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking

>>> the

>

>>> process of defining us.

>

>>>

>

>>> I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large

>>> numbers

>

>>> of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in

>>> the

>

>>> media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably

>>> not

>

>>> "represent" us in any sense of the word.

>

>>>

>

>>> Solidarity,

>

>>>

>

>>> Jon

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:20 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Has anyone else from this list been in discussion with Workhouse PR? Just

>

>>> trying to understand if we are outsourcing "PR" work.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:14 AM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd:

>>> Workhouse

>

>>> PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Certainly and of course! Please be sure to keep me in the loop going

>

>>> forward, thanks.

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Rebecca,

>

>>>

>

>>> Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17

>>> listserv?

>

>>>

>

>>> I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations

>>> going

>

>>> on about PR.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Justin,

>

>>>

>

>>> Nice to meet you briefly today.

>

>>>

>

>>> Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He

>

>>> was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks

>

>>> Fifth Avenue.

>

>>>

>

>>> He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time.

>

>>> Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they

>>> did

>

>>> about Saturday's protests:

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-10-03_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-from-pr-firm

>

>>>

>

>>> We should both be in touch with these folks, right?

>

>>>

>

>>> Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do

>>> the

>

>>> same.

>

>>>

>

>>> Be well,

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:55 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Fwd: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: rebeccaction@gmail.com

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: William Schwartz <will.js1@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:49 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Well they are volunteering their help. I just chatted them up on twitter.

>

>>> There was an article in the New York Post about it too.

>

>>>

>

>>> William Schwartz

>

>>>

>

>>> 917.385.5047

>

>>>

>

>>> Connect!

>

>>>

>

>>> http://twitter.com/2William

>

>>>

>

>>> On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Are you joking!

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> jemcgloin@verizon.net Oct 04 04:37PM -0500 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> +1

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/04/11, Will Gauss<willgauss@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> To protect us from people lying about representing us, put to a vote at

>>> the

>

>>> GA today that we make a blanket statement informing the media that no

>

>>> company speaks for us and to reject any speaker who claims otherwise as a

>

>>> liar.

>

>>>

>

>>> Then, form a working group to select -individuals- who are authorized to

>

>>> speak for us.

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from my iPhone

>

>>>

>

>>> On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Beware of corporate co-optation in all its guises. They want to "help"

>>> #OWS

>

>>> for a reason.

>

>>>

>

>>> To maintain our authenticity we must reject all corporate influence. We

>>> must

>

>>> not become a corporate sponsored movement.

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Snafu <snafu@thething.it> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Just heard a guy at the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC, who called in as an

>>> OWS

>

>>> "spokesperson" and claimed to be "in charge of security at the park." The

>

>>> radio show was about how Wall Street traders and workers feel about the

>

>>> occupation. He said that he wanted the radio conversation to happen in

>>> the

>

>>> square (on which I can agree) and then added that OWS is not about class

>

>>> warfare but about getting things done and bringing about change. The

>>> overall

>

>>> tone was that of a reassuring middle-class guy speaking to middle

>>> America.

>

>>>

>

>>> While this communicative style may help expand our ranks, it will also

>>> help

>

>>> change the social composition of the movement in such a way that if any

>

>>> reforms are ever passed, they will be probably so watered-down that they

>

>>> will change in fact nothing. I am not sure how spokespersons are selected

>

>>> and whether this guy (who claimed to have appeared on several TV programs

>>> as

>

>>> well) has anything to do with the PR firm mentioned in this thread.

>

>>>

>

>>> But I want to raise the point that this way of communicating can have

>

>>> serious political consequences, some of which may not be that desirable.

>>> I

>

>>> think we should try and select spokespersons who are able to express a

>>> more

>

>>> radical point of view in a reasonable way.

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/4/11 9:25 AM, Doug Singsen wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> +1

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent from my phone

>

>>>

>

>>> On Oct 4, 2011 8:19 AM, "Jon Good" <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> WTF? I appreciate that folks are eager to help, but I am very, very wary

>>> of

>

>>> this. It could be really nice to have their noise machine at our

>>> disposal,

>

>>> but in general, using the structures and systems of huge corporations

>

>>> presents a danger of this movement acting like corporation.

>

>>>

>

>>> Also, I'm fairly sure no entity can be the "official" anything of Occupy

>

>>> Wall Street without passing consensus in the GA.

>

>>>

>

>>> Public relations, generally, is about controlling peoples' perceptions

>>> and

>

>>> ideas about certain things. We shouldn't do this, because it's

>>> antithetical

>

>>> to participatory democracy. Moreover, we haven't defined ourselves or

>

>>> consensed upon demands, so any of their usual schtick would be hijacking

>>> the

>

>>> process of defining us.

>

>>>

>

>>> I would welcome their suggestions for strategies for reaching large

>>> numbers

>

>>> of people, and would welcome their considerable skills to talk us up in

>>> the

>

>>> media, but OWS is not their client and a corporate firm should probably

>>> not

>

>>> "represent" us in any sense of the word.

>

>>>

>

>>> Solidarity,

>

>>>

>

>>> Jon

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:20 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Has anyone else from this list been in discussion with Workhouse PR? Just

>

>>> trying to understand if we are outsourcing "PR" work.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 2:14 AM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: The PR company I told you was "representing" OWS Fwd:

>>> Workhouse

>

>>> PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Certainly and of course! Please be sure to keep me in the loop going

>

>>> forward, thanks.

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:50 AM, J Wedes <jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Rebecca,

>

>>>

>

>>> Can I forward this info about Workhouse PR onto the september 17

>>> listserv?

>

>>>

>

>>> I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of the conversations

>>> going

>

>>> on about PR.

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:45 AM, RM <rebeccaction@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi Justin,

>

>>>

>

>>> Nice to meet you briefly today.

>

>>>

>

>>> Here's a FW from my roommate, who runs the occupyinfo twitter account. He

>

>>> was contacted by Workhouse PR, which does work for big clients like Saks

>

>>> Fifth Avenue.

>

>>>

>

>>> He said they seemed well-intentioned and were volunteering their time.

>

>>> Here's a link to an article or two about this release to the media they

>>> did

>

>>> about Saturday's protests:

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/10/03/2011-10-03_occupy_wall_street_protesters_picked_up_by_public_relations_firm_workhouse_probo.html

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://gawker.com/5846154/occupy-wall-street-gets-much+needed-help-from-pr-firm

>

>>>

>

>>> We should both be in touch with these folks, right?

>

>>>

>

>>> Would you do me a favor and cc: me on your correspondence? And I will do

>>> the

>

>>> same.

>

>>>

>

>>> Be well,

>

>>>

>

>>> -Rebecca

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:55 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Fwd: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: rebeccaction@gmail.com

>

>>>

>

>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

>>>

>

>>> From: William Schwartz <will.js1@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:49 PM

>

>>>

>

>>> Subject: Re: Workhouse PR

>

>>>

>

>>> To: Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>> Well they are volunteering their help. I just chatted them up on twitter.

>

>>> There was an article in the New York Post about it too.

>

>>>

>

>>> William Schwartz

>

>>>

>

>>> 917.385.5047

>

>>>

>

>>> Connect!

>

>>>

>

>>> http://twitter.com/2William

>

>>>

>

>>> On 3 October 2011 18:47, Rebecca Manski <rebaleh@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Are you joking!

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: persons running wearethe99percent.tumblr.com

>

>>>

>

>>> Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> Oct 04 02:25PM -0700 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Can the persons running http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/ please email

>>> me

>

>>> off-list. We are getting contacted by journalists who want to speak with

>

>>> you.

>

>>>

>

>>> (By the way, I think you should win a webby - it is a wonderful site!)

>

>>>

>

>>> Thanks,

>

>>>

>

>>> Micah

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Welcome Flyer

>

>>>

>

>>> jemcgloin@verizon.net Oct 04 04:23PM -0500 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Very cool, maybe a quick run through of general assembly prodedures and

>>> how

>

>>> to find a working group?

>

>>>

>

>>> On 10/04/11, J Wedes<jwedes@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>>

>

>>> Hi everyone,

>

>>>

>

>>> I know we have a NYC GA pamphlet, but I wanted to create something that

>>> we

>

>>> could give to new campers upon arrival at the Welcome Centers.

>

>>>

>

>>> Here's my start on it:

>

>>>

>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ql4xnJO1y5kChYhoSCDDImMZZkPSvycCovhGGCb0BNM/edit?hl=en_US

>

>>>

>

>>> It lays out basic rules, info about the park/neighborhood/etc. It is by

>>> no

>

>>> means exhaustive, but it's a start.

>

>>>

>

>>> What do people think?

>

>>>

>

>>> -justin

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Wall Street is War Street: Antiwar rally on Sat, Oct 15 moved to

>>> OWS

>

>>>

>

>>> Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:20PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> It was originally going to be targeted at 3 embassies in Midtown, but the

>

>>> United National Antiwar Committee (UNAC) voted to move it downtown.

>

>>>

>

>>> *Wall Street Is War Street*

>

>>>

>

>>> *On the 10th Anniversary of U.S. War in Afghanistan*

>

>>>

>

>>> *NO to Endless WARS!*****

>

>>>

>

>>> *Sat. OCT. 15**,*

>

>>>

>

>>> *Noon Rally at Wall Street*

>

>>>

>

>>> *March to Occupy Wall Street Encampment*

>

>>>

>

>>> *Liberty & Broadway*

>

>>>

>

>>> * *

>

>>>

>

>>> *Oct. 15 is a day of nationally coordinated antiwar actions in cities

>>> across

>

>>> the U.S., the 10th anniversary of the massively destructive and criminal

>

>>> U.S. war on Afghanistan.*

>

>>>

>

>>> ** **

>

>>>

>

>>> When the U.S. government began its attack on Afghanistan 10 years ago,

>

>>> President Bush called it a “war on terror.” It was followed by 8 years of

>

>>> U.S. war Iraq and now war in Libya and drone wars on Pakistan, Yemen,

>

>>> Somalia and Sudan under Pres. Obama. These are all wars for oil,

>>> resources

>

>>> and markets in the interests of corporate power.****

>

>>>

>

>>> At the same time, the U.S. government is carrying out attacks on working

>

>>> people within the U.S., cutting back on health care and education while

>

>>> bailing out the Wall St. banks and insurance companies. Every time people

>

>>> call for money for social services, we are told there is no money, but

>>> the

>

>>> government always finds money for its wars. It is increasing repression

>>> on

>

>>> Muslims, on Black and Latino youth and on those who protest, as the FBI

>

>>> raids on anti-war demonstrators and the NYPD attacks on the peaceful

>>> Occupy

>

>>> Wall St. demonstrators show.****

>

>>>

>

>>> Join us in a march to demand an end to U.S. wars in Afghanistan & Iraq,

>>> an

>

>>> end to U.S. aid to Israel, and an end to U.S. bombing and destruction in

>

>>> Libya and an end to the growing repression at home.****

>

>>>

>

>>> *We NEED*****

>

>>>

>

>>> *Jobs, Health Care & Education*****

>

>>>

>

>>> *NOT*****

>

>>>

>

>>> *War, Racism & Repression*

>

>>>

>

>>> *--------------------------------*****

>

>>>

>

>>> Followed by a *4 pm Solidarity Meeting* with Carlos Montes, a speaker

>>> from

>

>>> the Victor Toro Defense Committee, immigrant rights and antiwar activists

>

>>> facing government attack and phony charges, and Cyrus McGoldrick from the

>>> NY

>

>>> Council on American Islamic Relations.****

>

>>>

>

>>> *At Judson Memorial Church, Washington Square South & Thompson St., NYC*

>

>>>

>

>>> Called by: United National Antiwar Coalition (UNAC),

>

>>> www.UNACpeace.org<http://www.unacpeace.org/>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:24PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> BTW, this is marking the tenth anniversary of the invasion of

>>> Afghanistan,

>

>>> which is also the start date for the October2011 occupation in

>>> Washington,

>

>>> DC, which starts on Thursday. The NYC march was moved back a week from

>>> the

>

>>> anniversary date so it wouldn't conflict with the DC occupation.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:29PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Great how show of support from UNAC

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:31PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> UNAC is also an endorser/participant in the DC occupation.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> lisajensky@gmail.com Oct 04 08:37PM ^

>

>>>

>

>>> This is great!

>

>>>

>

>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

>

>>>

>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>

>>> From: Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com>

>

>>> Sender: september17@googlegroups.com

>

>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:31:37

>

>>> To: <september17@googlegroups.com>

>

>>> Reply-To: september17@googlegroups.com

>

>>> Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Wall Street is War Street: Antiwar

>

>>> rally

>

>>> on Sat, Oct 15 moved to OWS

>

>>>

>

>>> UNAC is also an endorser/participant in the DC occupation.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: Miami Herald - Phone interview - TODAY

>

>>>

>

>>> Vicente Rubio <vrubiopu@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:06PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> A Miami Herald jounalist is looking for a Latinamerican OWS organizer to

>

>>> interview by phone asap. Please write to moralesisa@gmail.com.

>

>>>

>

>>> 2011/10/4 Yotam Marom <yotam.marom@gmail.com>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>> grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com> Oct 04 04:23PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> I am puerto rican raised in tennessee if that fits anywhere?

>

>>>

>

>>>>> Hi friends.

>

>>>

>

>>>>> I wrote a piece about the occupation. Figured I'd put it up here in

>>>>> case

>

>>>>> people find it useful in some way.

>

>>>

>

>>>

>>> http://www.zcommunications.org/a-brief-analysis-from-a-wall-street-occupier-by-yotam-marom

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>  Topic: URGENT: Safer Spaces and Non-violence

>

>>>

>

>>> Sarah <miss.quintessential01@gmail.com> Oct 03 10:59PM -0400 ^

>

>>>

>

>>> Thank you SO MUCH for addressing this. I'm looking forward to hearing

>>> back

>

>>> from the meeting, and will see what I can do to help maintain a a truly

>

>>> safer space at OWS.

>

>>>

>

>>> Best,

>

>>> Sarah

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>>

>

>>

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