Sent time:   Monday, October 10, 2011 9:19:08 PM
Subject:   Re: Re: [september17discuss] Excellent essay on OWS: No Demand is Big Enough

Please come to the demands group at 2pm on sunday. All sides must be



-----Original Message-----

From: jemcgloin <>

To: september17 <>

Sent: Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Subject: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Excellent essay on OWS: No Demand

is Big Enough


I know about the Declaration, but I think we should publicize it more

since many people don't seem to know it.  But a set of principles is

different from a set of grievances.  Although maybe negative demands is

not so different.





On 10/10/11, gail zawacki&lt;; wrote:John, is

this what you are looking for?



the important part is at the end:  these grievances are not



On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 4:18 PM, &lt;; wrote:

I like positive love filled sweep of this piece.  I agree with most of

it.  But I do think we need to communicate something more concrete to

the 99%.  People who are out of work and losing their house are not

interested in grand visions of a possible world.  They want solutions

to their problems.  It may be that the mere existance of OWS and a big

message will help, but I think we can oppose things that are obviously

harmful.  I personaly am not asking anyone to give up "rational self

interest."  I am only asking them to give up greed, which is

irrational.  Far sighted rational self interested saves the people and

the environment and the economy all at the same time.  The rational

part means you have to figure it out and make it work though.


We could start be putting forth a set of principles, that would

communicate to the world the general direction that we want to go. 

There was a group working on such a thing but I don't know where to

find them.  Demands don't always have to be in the positive either. 

End slavery is a perfectly reasonable demand.  Like I said I like the

article, but many in the 99% need real help right now.

Thanks, John





On 10/10/11, gail zawacki&lt;;




"Occupy Wall Street has been criticized for its lack of clear demands,

but how do we issue demands, when what we really want is nothing less

than the more beautiful world our hearts tell us is possible? No demand

is big enough. We could make lists of demands for new public policies:

tax the wealthy, raise the minimum wage, protect the environment, end

the wars, regulate the banks. While we know these are positive steps,

they aren't quite what motivated people to occupy Wall Street. What

needs attention is something deeper: the power structures, ideologies,

and institutions that prevented these steps from being taken years ago;

indeed, that made these steps even necessary."