From:   Layan Fuleihan <>
Sent time:   Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:29:53 PM
To:   september17 <>
Subject:   [september17discuss] Re: Zionist speaker at OWS outreach training

 It is true that on a global scale the financial system connects

everything, but I don't think that serves as excuse enough to push

specific issues aside. I think that there is room for all sorts of

discussions on all sorts of issues at OWS and they definitely do not

compete, nor do they cancel each other out.


 But the discussion on this specific topic of the J14 protests and

their impact, both negative and positive, on different groups,

shouldn't take place here on this thread but rather at the square, so

if anyone is interested in helping me organize something at the park,

send me an email!





On Oct 12, 9:14 pm, Winter Siroco <> wrote:

> Shaista, as I was saying, endorsing or not endorsing the declaration is less

> relevant than the living document of our daily lives.

> Cesar


> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:35 AM, shaista husain <>wrote:




> > Thank you Cesar ---This is the way forward to the light.....endorse the

> > Declaration of First Nation People!!! There is no other way forward. I

> > believe this is the reason we are here. I believe there will be consensus.

> > Peace and love,

> > Shaista


> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Winter Siroco <>wrote:


> >> While some at Liberty Plaza are trying to "Recover the American Dream"

> >> (delusion would be more appropriate) some of us are trying to "End the

> >> American Nightmare".


> >> Many voices have yet to be fully heard at Zuccotti Park before we can

> >> reclaim its original name.

> >> Let's have a dialogue with multiple voices, not a consensual monologue.


> >> I am so glad we had the Day In solidarity with Indigenous People instead

> >> of the infamous Columbus Day, and that we had great moments and that our

> >> internal problems are brought to the Sunlight. We should start working our

> >> minds for a new meaning of Thanksgiving Day, and for everyday.


> >> If you are interested in hearing truly oppressed voices, please, read the

> >> threads that follow.


> >> I do think that my posting very much belongs here, and that other problems

> >> of blacks and undocumented workers (many of them indigenous people displaced

> >> by other horror histories of oppression) belong here too.

> >> Cesar

> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> >> From: Kent Lebsock <>

> >> Date: Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:13 AM


> >> I understand that racism is not necessarily unique in a situation like

> >> this.  And I'm happy to discuss it with anyone.  However, we would hope that

> >> you would also understand that as Native peoples we go through this every

> >> single time we talk to a group of any kind because the issues are buried,

> >> hidden, misunderstood, fantasized, mythical, and denied.  Americans deny

> >> genocide.  Americans think their history with Indians consists of

> >> Thanksgiving... and fear.  Like that one facilitator said to me, 'you're not

> >> special.'  But she is wrong and until she and others like it realize that,

> >> whatever you do is doomed to failure.  Are there other groups in this

> >> country who, in order to be removed from their land and their resources

> >> stolen, were massacred or starved to death?  Are there other groups whose

> >> children were literally stolen and taken hundreds of miles from home to be

> >> reconditioned to NOT live in the cultures of their birth?  Are there other

> >> groups in this country who's teenage suicide rate is the highest in the

> >> Americas?  Are there other groups with unemployment rates of between 65 and

> >> 95 percent.  Are there other groups whose average life expectancy is 55?

> >>  Are there other groups in this country who have been fighting colonists,

> >> capitalist, christians, kings, empires, democracies and oligarchies for 519

> >> years to simply preserve their right to exist?  No, none.  So she, and those

> >> who think like her, are wrong.  I firmly believe that until America and

> >> Americans recognize, accept and atone for their own history, this hemisphere

> >> will always have a dark cloud hanging over it for all the immigrants coming

> >> here.  That system is bound to fail because you cannot ever connect to a

> >> land that you murder and cheat and lie in order to occupy.  Whether that

> >> occupation is colonial Virginia or Zucotti Park, you will fail without

> >> listening to Indigneous peoples and turning to our connection to the Earth.

> >>  Our prophecies say so.  History shows it. Contemporary events support it.


> >> Feel free to share anything I say.  The first step in any encounter is

> >> transparency.


> >> Wopila.  Hecetu


> >>


> >> On Oct 12, 2011, at 08:55 AM, Cesar Arenas-Mena <>

> >> wrote:


> >> Dear Kent, Glenn, Tiokasin, Roberto and Janene,


> >> I propose to bring your concerns to the general OWS email discussion

> >> group. If you agree, I could post your letter today.


> >> The easiest thing to do would be to forget about it and walk our way, but

> >> if we are serious about transforming the world we should start by

> >> transforming minds. I am not myself very prone to the task, ignorance and

> >> conscious or unconscious bigotry will only be defeated after confrontation.


> >> Your incident was not the first, and it will not be the last. Similar

> >> concerns have been raised about Palestinian rights and a Zionist who joined

> >> a working group. I do not think there will be any transformation of our

> >> society if we do not define and defend what we stand for.


> >> I not only ask you to share your concerns with the group, but to join the

> >> ongoing discussion (I could request your inclusion in the OWS email group).

> >> There will be no consensus but monologue if only privileged voices are

> >> heard.


> >> We have many beautiful documents already, about human rights, freedoms and

> >> treaties of mutual respect, just ink and paper if the words do not reach our

> >> souls.


> >> Give it some thought, a lot of people should hear what you have to say,

> >> and it is not so often that people gets ready to hear and speak truth.  Join

> >> those of us who are serious about truly changing the way we treat each

> >> other.


> >> Cesar


> >> We are waking up from the American Nightmare.


> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Tiokasin Ghosthorse <<tiokasin@gmailcom>

> >> > wrote:


> >>>  September 17, 1787

> >>>   I got into a bit of a tiff with one washicu woman who was clearly

> >>> completely uneducated (she used the old refrain, "I didn't have anything to

> >>> do with colonization and it wasn't her responsibility.").


> >>>  Kent,

> >>> This is an example or an excuse to not take individual responsibility in

> >>> all aspects of education themselves on the real issues rather than their

> >>> privileges. I often have a response to this American Exceptionalism. I

> >>> usually ask them if they follow the democracy and the U.S. Constitution

> >>> signed over 200 years ago and most often they say, "yes."

> >>> If I feel inclined, I remind them of what the document's signers did to

> >>> the Original Peoples of this land called Turtle Island. Then I use their own

> >>> words so to speak and say "well I wasn't there on September 17, 1777 and I

> >>> didn't sign the constitution nor did my people so why should I have to

> >>> follow your laws?


> >>> The 500 year old generational denial is even buried deeper, even with the

> >>> "Occupy" movement.


> >>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Kent L <>

> >>>  wrote:


> >>>> Well, I'm gearing up to write a report (I'm starting to feel my age

> >>>> after shouting and standing all evening) but basically the "facilitators" of

> >>>> the "general assembly" said that they weren't "set-up" to consider any kind

> >>>> of declaration so they couldn't "endorse" it.  It would, they said, be

> >>>> treating Indians as "special."  I got into a bit of a tiff with one washicu

> >>>> woman who was clearly completely uneducated (she used the old refrain, "I

> >>>> didn't have anything to do with colonization and it wasn't her

> >>>> responsibility.").  Though they didn't want to treat Indigenous peoples as

> >>>> special, it was in a private meeting of the "facilitators" that this

> >>>> decision occurred (after having told us they would consider it in the

> >>>> General Assembly.  Apparently they have learned well from their system of

> >>>> privilege and hierarchy and failed to see the irony.  We did present it to

> >>>> the "general assembly" (maybe a thousand people) and asked them to endorse

> >>>> it as groups if they wanted and even offered to come back and do a teach-in

> >>>> in a more intimate setting for those interested, but I doubt it will go

> >>>> anywhere.


> >>>> Nonetheless, the people who had worked with us from "Occupy Wall

> >>>> Street", a young woman named Bahareh and a gentlemen named Cesar, were very

> >>>> supportive and did their best to make sure we were able to make our

> >>>> presentations.  I spoke generally about colonialism, capitalism, and a

> >>>> culture designed to create physical and economic reservations based on the

> >>>> devastation of the Earth, trying to follow Rosalie's suggestion about

> >>>> connecting the dots for a non-Indian audience.  Roberto Borrero from the

> >>>> United Taino Confederacy spoke more directly to the issue of Columbus and

> >>>> genocide and Tiokasin Ghost Horse talked some about the Indigneous history

> >>>> of Manhattan with input from Steve Newcomb (Leni Lenape).  We rounded it off

> >>>> with Janene Yazzie, a young Navajo Deneh activist who is now going to school

> >>>> here in New York.  She spoke about the responsibilities within Indigenous

> >>>> cultures to the community, the Earth and the future generations.  The

> >>>> overall message was, hopefully, until the rights of Indigenous peoples are

> >>>> addressed there will be no healing for the planet or anybody else.  I

> >>>> alluded to that when I told the "facilitator" that I though it would be

> >>>> shameful for them, if New York, the source of the now world-wide "occupy"

> >>>> movement could not find away to endorse the Declaration of Indigenous

> >>>> peoples.  Its demonstrative of elitism for sure and the concerns of our

> >>>> peoples and other communities of color.


> >>>> Moving forward, I'm not sure what to do.  That will require some

> >>>> reflection, input and prayer.  In many ways, it was the same story.  As I

> >>>> said in an earlier email to our folks, it's like 1977 at the United Nations.

> >>>>  No one gets it and it will be a very long road to educate them on it.  In

> >>>> this setting, I'm not sure its worth our very limited resources, both human

> >>>> and financial.  On the other hand, this should be a progressive crowd with

> >>>> whom a valuable alliance could be


> ...


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