Sent time:   Friday, October 14, 2011 9:33:38 PM
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] MoveOn Execs Now Official Spokespeople For OWS, According to MSM Execs

here here !

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-----Original Message-----

From: Snafu <>

To: september17 <>

Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2011 11:21 pm

Subject: Re: [september17discuss] MoveOn Execs Now Official

Spokespeople For OWS, According to MSM Execs


               I think it would be a mistake to characterize MoveOn as

Other to this movement. On a tactical level, there are objectives we

may actually share with MoveOn--namely, making sure that the next

Congress has enough elected representatives who are able to pass

Glass-Steagall or even nationalize the banks. Tactically, and I

repeat *tactically*, we should be able to make the regulation of the

financial sector and the banking system a fundamental theme of 2012.


     Strategically, however, we cannot share the path with MoveOn

because the struggle for real democracy necessarily entails the

breakdown of the two-party system. Strategically, we should ask

ourselves what kind of world we want to live in and what kind of

forms of social organization are going to sustain it.


     For instance, I would like to live in a world where water, food,

housing, education, health care, the communication infrastructure,

and transportation are not treated primarily as commodities but as

commons. What are the forms of social and political organization

that could sustain the management of these resources and services as

commons? How should they be organized? And how are we going to

develop them? I would like the Demands Committee to discuss such

issues--i.e. discuss the movement as a constituent process.


     In order to sustain such constituent process, however, it is not

sufficient to say "we are autonomous, we do not need anyone."

Autonomy can and should be achieved by building alliances and as we

become capable of pushing into the mainstream of US politics

keywords that were unthinkable only few years ago. "Regulate the

financial sector, tax financial rent, curb corporate power" are such

key words. Making them major talking points of 2012 would really

mean to put into crisis 30 years of neoliberal hegemony--whose

global mantra has been deregulate, privatize, use credit (debt) as a

leverage to expand the GDP.


     Of course, this is what MoveOn hopes to do. But is it really that

  way? Is MoveOn, for instance, ready to support a New York Democrat

in the primaries who is going to run on an openly anti-Wall Street

platform and unseat Charles Schumer from his WS-greased Senate seat?

I guess that what I am trying to say here is that we should not only

think of how MoveOn is using OWS but also how OWS may use MoveOn to

pursue a long-term radical agenda, which will not go very far if we

limit ourselves to state our own purity. Further, as many have

already noticed on this list, the fact that MoveOn is supporting OWS

is also a symptom of the fact that this organization has already

moved onto more radical positions thanks to OWS.


     With all of this of course I am not saying that we should build a

  public alliance with MoveOn or any other electoral machine, but that

  we should be able to use the weight of this movement to condition

the electoral process *from without* and retain a strong presence in

the media as they will shift their focus back to party politics.


     On 10/14/11 5:47 PM, wrote:

I don't see the problem with this (especially after listening

to the radio broadcast which makes it obvious when the dj is

speaking and when the moveon guy is speaking.  moveon makes it

clear that we are separate movements with separate  goals but

with overlapping interests and that we can work together.  It

is not any worse for moveon to march to an occupation than for

a union to march to the occupation.  Notice that the

occupation isn't marching to them.




         On 10/14/11, Micah White&lt;;

         wrote: FYI, here is how MoveOn is working on

the local level to co-opt. This was sent to the organizers of

#OCCUPYBERKELEY. Notice how they are trying to turn Oct 15

into a rally for themselves.  I assume these kinds of

"friendly" emails are being sent out to occupations across the

country.  They want to steal our momentum to revive their dead



           Already, it looks like Eugene fell for the trap? See here:



          Dear Emma,


           We've been organizing a BIG Jobs Not Cuts march and rally

        since August, and it's in Oakland, Oct. 15, 1 pm, starting

      at Laney College. Can you have your OccupyBerkeley rally

  join us, and we can then join you, to make both actions

bigger and better? All the Bay Area labor councils, MoveOn/Rebuild

       the Dream, peace, environmental, youth, senior, and

political groups have endorsed the Jobs Not Cuts protest,

and we need you, too. See all the details at 



           Our plan is to march from Laney to Frank Ogawa Plaza,

    stopping at the Federal Building to symbolically nail our

list of demands to Congress's door.



           We've been sending out press releases and calendar

listings, and all our participating groups are publicizing

the protest to their members. I'm so sorry that you didn't

get the word before planning your action, but I hope we can

join forces and make lemonade out of this lemon of a





          Communications Committee

          MoveOn East Bay Council



           cc to Charles Davidson, Coordinator, MoveOn East

Bay Council





           On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Justine

&lt;; wrote:

    is prepared to help.  Our

website gets ~300,000 visitors a day and we are ready to

make a very strong statement against any group attempting

to drown out the voices of the people.  This movement will

be co-opted over our dead bodies.





                                   On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 2:31 PM,

David DeGraw &lt;; wrote:


                                                             top MoveOn

leaders / executives are all over national

television speaking for the movement.  Saying

We, We, We, We and directing people to

    , which redirects to

           the DailyKos.


                         again, fully appreciate the help and support of

                        MoveOn, but the MSM is clearly using them as the

                        spokespeople for OWS.  I just had an off-record

                       discussion w/ NBC executives who say that other

                      news execs there plan to use them to divide the

                     movement. This is an blatant attempt to fracture

                     the 99% into a Democratic Party organization.

                  The leadership of MoveON and the Daily Kos are

                Democratic Party operatives.  They do a lot of

              great work, but they are divide and conquer

         pawns.   For years they ignored Wall Street

    protests to keep complete focus on the

Republicans, in favor of Goldman's Obama and

Wall Street's Democratic leadership.


                         if anyone at Move On or Daily Kos would like to

                        have a public debate about these comments, we

                    invite it.


                         if MoveOn leaders / executives are going to

keep going on National TV to speak for OWS, we

need them to make a clear statement.


                         please urgently propose that statement or a

plan to call them out in an effective way.


                         know there are some people who think any

                 attempts at co-option will be unsuccessful, and

                there is some truth to that, but we can't let

             blatant co-option attempts continue w/out a

        response.  the longer we remain silent as people

        get on national tv claiming to speak for and

   lead the movement, the more damage will be done.