From:   rob hollander <>
Sent time:   Monday, October 17, 2011 10:52:21 PM
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] No man is an Island

First time I don't agree with you John! Great, useful quote, but as a demand, it sounds way ideological and principle-in-abstract -- like forming an entirely new economy and society from the ground up. I think OWS should start with widely accepted demands that are specific to 2011.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:41 PM, <> wrote:
Here is a quote a guy named Steve shared with the Demands group.  I think it is all the demand we need:

Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came.
This is putting the matter on a general principle, and perhaps it is best to do so; for if we examine the case minutely it will be found that the accumulation of personal property is, in many instances, the effect of paying too little for the labor that produced it; the consequence of which is that the working hand perishes in old age, and the employer abounds in affluence.
 -Thomas Paine
On 10/16/11, Kelley Wolcott<> wrote:
I think we should hold a costume contest for most scary white collar criminal (or politician/lobbiest). Then join the march in the West Village - maybe even encourage folks to continue marching to OWS? Possibly have a parade of our own? Horror story time about ghouls of financial crisis. And it could be a fun day to plan for OWS families! I believe Mischeif Night should be left to the direct action committee. ;)


On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 7:28 PM, grimwomyn <> wrote:
Okay-- so as a parent-- lemme tell you-- that unless those kids are OWS kids, they will not be coming to the park... the OWS message should be more positive-- kids don't really get irony or sarcasm... something along the lines of "Corporations should pay taxes so your teachers could afford rent" which every NYC kids gets the meaning of---

That being said there are so many things you can do-- make the ENTIRE park into a haunted house with scary hedge fund managers (as you suggested-- twinkle!!!)

For the kid themed stuff there is a woman putting together stuff for kids and families perhaps someone from the group can reach out to her-- having a destination for NYC families would be AWESOME!! as most of us don't do the house to house thing (since it is kind of dangerous in NYC) check out her group:

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Jon Good <> wrote:
So, Halloween is coming in like 2 weeks, and I wanted to ask if anyone had any ideas or thoughts.  I have three thoughts.

1) Liberty Plaza should ABSOLUTELY give out candy to trick-or-treaters.  It's possible that the candy could come bundled with a kid-friendly message about OWS (e.g. "What do you want to be when you grow up?  The 1% doesn't care.  They want you to be a check-out clerk at Wal-Mart.")

2) Dressing up for Halloween was originally supposed to be as things that are SCARY (not, as has been the recent trend, sexy) and as such, perhaps we should think about going as the 1%, or as the injustices of banks committed throughout the world (though, come to think of it, "sexy hedge fund manager" or "sexy murder of labor organizers in Latin America" costumes have the potential to be morbidly hilarious and thought-provoking).

3) Some people might dress up as us, and not necessarily with the best of intentions.  I'm not sure what to do about that.  



Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009