Sent time:   Wednesday, October 19, 2011 8:50:50 AM
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Hypocrisy

Hi just for the record I am against EVERY corpration. I am just nto

nessarcarly against all tecnolgical progress.I do think however a chunk

most go for the sake of the world and we must stop producing so much

unnessary junk yeah know sucidal consumerism


-----Original Message-----

From: Sebastian Fernandez Giraldo <>

To: september17 <>

Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:37 am

Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Hypocrisy


I agree with Jon. It's better to have critical voices to sound board

against inside the movement.


On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Jon Good

&lt;; wrote:

I disagree.  They can still read our stuff, because it's public, and

their baiting is actually producing a wealth of good answers to the

common questions of morons, and they provide challenges that it's shown

we can easily overcome.



On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 7:15 AM, grimwomyn &lt;;





On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 1:52 AM, Thadeaus &lt;;


Regardless of how people feel about this issue I think it's important

that be removed from this list considering how

openly hostile they are to this movement -!/Scipio_Nasica




On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Will Gauss

&lt;; wrote:

&gt; Ben & Jerry's


&gt; Sent from my iPhone

&gt; On Oct 18, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Doug Singsen

&lt;; wrote:


&gt; Which corporations are the ones that don't abuse the system? Do


&gt; actually exist or is the idea of the "good corporation" just a



&gt; Doug



&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Sebastian Fernandez Giraldo

&gt; &lt;; wrote:


&gt;&gt; To echo guindave, Gabriel, and Aaron, some of us are not

against every

&gt;&gt; corporation, just against the ones that abuse the system to

gain an

&gt;&gt; advantage and provide little or no contribution to society. We

are also

&gt;&gt; working towards making the production of these goods and

services more

&gt;&gt; sustainable. So no, using iPhones etc is not against what we

are trying to

&gt;&gt; do.


&gt;&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Aaron Gemmill

&lt;; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt; one important way for industrial economy to advance would

be a radical

&gt;&gt;&gt; shift toward sustainable production. there are many

obstacles to this, but

&gt;&gt;&gt; science isn't one of them.



&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:23 PM, gail zawacki


&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It's based on science.


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:05 PM, J.A. Myerson


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That is an unbelievably reactionary position to



&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:03 AM, gail zawacki


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Charles, I have a suspicion that "advanced

industrial economy that is

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sustainable" involves an oxymoron.


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Charles


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do not be Luddites. We want an advanced

industrial economy. We just

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; want it to be ever more democratic and

sustainable, until we have the

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; kind of modern society that actually has a

chance of prosperous

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; survival, rather than what we have now.




&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Oct 18, 11:34 am, Harrison Schultz

&lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Woah, this article about the

Adbusters largest private donor

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; - stockbroker backer Robert S. Halper

supports my point.  It seems

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; as if

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; members of the 1%, class traitors,

god bless them have been helping

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; us all

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; along...

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; H.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:36 AM,

Harrison Schultz

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;;wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; I agree with the sentiments

about using the tools of the system

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; against the

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; system and this is in fact what

I've been attempting to do since

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; before day

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; one of this movement, as this

leak and deliberate

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; misinterpretation of a

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; personal email I sent Micah

White will verify...

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;



&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; I would point out as someone who

works in the

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; marketing/advertising

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; industry while supporting this

movement that many of the most

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; scathing and

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; damning critiques of the system

come from individuals who

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; actually work

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; within the system.  I've met

several radicals specifically within

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; the

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; advertising industry who repress

their beliefs just enough in

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; order to work

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; and support their families.

 I've met plenty of business leaders,

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; although

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; not necessarily anyone from the

1%, who support what we are doing

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; such as my

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; current boss and mentor as well

as my former mentor who has

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; actually taken

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; the time to visit me at camp

several times now.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; The traditional battle lines

between labor and capital no longer

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; apply.  If

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; we are serious about

facilitating an actual revolution which I

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; know we all

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; are then I would argue that it

is vital to seize the most cutting

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; edge means

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; of production especially if they

happen to have been developed in

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; some cases

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; by truly amoral corporations.  I

think it's also important not to

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; alienate,

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; but to ally ourselves with our

supporters from the business

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; world.  I

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; further believe along those same

lines that it's important for

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; those of us

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; who are able to do so to

actually earn and "occupy" key positions

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; and exert

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; our influence precisely within

those companies we would most like

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; to see

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; transformed if not obliterated

because I believe that it's naive

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; and wishful

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; to assume that they'll change

themselves as a direct result of

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; any of our

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; resentful rantings.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Hypocrisy is only a problem for

puritans not for revolutionaries.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; In solidarity,

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; Harrison

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:37 AM,

Jon Good

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sparkles to that, Lauren.

It's another insidious thing

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; corporations

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; do, having a fictional

entity take credit for the work of actual

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; people.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On Oct 18, 2011, at 8:18 AM,

Lauren &lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I'll also note that

cellular and wireless communications are

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; pretty

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; damn essential to areas

with limited physical infrastructure.




&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; J.A. Myerson


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 347.688.0241





&gt;&gt;&gt; --