From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:55:45 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Proposal on the agenda for tonight's GA
 

"survival of the fittest" gives me the heebie jeegies- how about survival of the most rational, the most democratic, the most cooperative, the most principled the most sane, the most demystified, the most strategic and sound? (survival of the fittest--well you know....sounds rather adventuresome. perhaps we should move away from the anonymous model--and let them do what they are already doing themselves, obsessed over leaks and what not.) there is real presence at the GA--ground up, we are concrete physical entities....rather than being a propaganda machine ONLY, perhaps build lasting network and infrastructure --(ie, stop being so jealous of moveon--and think about how we can "co-opt" some of their method of organization without directing it to the democratic party) neither are we anonymous nor are we MoveOn. so rather loosely, i am asking what will OWS do when the folks start pulling money out of the banks--the shit is going to hit the fan? what are we going to do come 9/2012 for elections? that is what is at stake here in this statement we proposed, and i do not have the answers.



On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:34 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:
It was exciting to present it, despite the rather anti-climactic pouring rain, a very small GA and quite theatrical presentation..we almost didn't want to propose since it wasn't really representative of usual size of our GA..But in all seriousness, i don't think making such a proposal is at odds with the declaration of occupation or proposed principles of solidarity--perhaps it should be put up on the website for discussion--that itself sends a strong message--as a "proposal" a living document that needs to be amended...we begin a very necessary and valid discussion, whether it can be fully agreed upon or not, it should be disseminated broadly--giving strength to (self reflexive) democratic process.



On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:24 PM, David DeGraw <David@ampedstatus.com> wrote:
frankly, in my opinion, love that most things are NOT "ratified" by the GA, but simply addressed within the GA, this way they can't fully pin any one statement on us (which drives them crazy), but people will still have a sense of where our head is at. Presenting something to the GA and placing proposals online definitely helps us craft a better message for future, while making it known we are working on various fronts and not asleep at the wheel.

in this regard, i look at OWS as the offline version of Anonymous.  you have a mass of messages / proposals in play and if people support the message, it will eventually emerge as a powerful force / direction.  it's a very organic / natural process - survival of the fittest idea model.




On 10/20/2011 1:10 PM, shaista husain wrote:
I think folks needed time to discuss changes to the statement--so as not to alienated people to the OWS... unless there is an urgency to have it done tonight...i think we should be careful not to rush things...


On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:49 PM, <guindave@aol.com> wrote:
I  would just get rid of the part on this proposal where it says "populism" since the populist just implys the 99%.  is it tonights genral assembly where we propose changes or last nights ?



-----Original Message-----
From: shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
To: september17 <september17@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:19 am
Subject: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Proposal on the agenda for tonight's GA

Gabriel, when Saddam was hung in the kangaroo trial, did it make a difference--did the US leave Iraq? how about Osama--did the US leave afghanistan? Now rumor has it Qadafi is dead, will they stop bombing Libya and allow the real revolutionaries to stand up--instead of the fake "rebels" who were part of quadafi's cabinet--whom they are propping as the scavenge all the resources. Don't be naive. it might be a "good thing" qadafi is dead, but there will always be a new bogeyman for US intervention that same old humanitarian missions to spread "democracy" what a farce!!!! dont believe the hype. the so called rebels went out killing african workers, dragging black people out of their home. It is a disgusting situation in Libya. Please write to me and let me know when the UN NATO or US actually ever feed the poor or educate or school or provide any help to anyone, except more war....killing and maiming...thanks love.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Gabriel Johnson &lt;gabjoh2@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
Chile's doing good stuff too (I think - most of you guys are a lot more plugged into this than I am), but that's still no reason to disregard Greece. Definitely, though, let's pay attention to the stuff going on in Africa and such (Qaddafi is dead, so that's a plus). Can we create a centralized source of updates or daily/weekly digests on similar things to the occupation (not necessarily affiliated with us) going on throughout the world?

--glj


On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 10:14 AM, shaista husain &lt;shaistahusain@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
the greeks are the brown folks of europe--how about you take a slight look further south--i adore all you well meaning leftists, but for a moment, my lovely comrades, stop hailing europe as the official "political" center--your geopolitical valorizing of all things european gets on my nerves because this was the position of stalin and the comintern, the most vulgar economics--that history and progress, understood in linear stages, with europe as most advanced, gave agency of progressive change, assuming incorrectly, that progressive change could only be in the hands of the working class of europe. from that point on marxism is flawed and so too anarchism, of which i am a syndacalist. We have come a long way from that vulgar notion of progress and see clearly where that has led to--state absolutism...and victory for capitalism. History has proven that revolution comes from the bottom up. I salute the european revolutionaries--soon the occupations will spread to germany and rest of NATO superstars domestically, they will confront the troika... but do you realize what is being waged further south in Tahrir--4000 dead maybe more--flesh and bones have sacrificed, children are at the forefront --syria, bahrain, palestine--(while we do not even demand that the USNATO get out of the war in Libya..nor make any anti-war statements here in OWS against our military occupations) The life and death battle is in the South--the unions that have emerged in Tahrir are mighty strong, comrades, leading the way forward.
in solidarity,
shaista



On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:21 AM, shaista husain &lt;shaistahusain@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
Well, according to David Harvey, Jameson and Frankfurt school, who've written in length on the condition of the 'post' as it relates to modernity, industrialization, or 'late capitalism' --we are in a condition of time/space compression, within a mutant and schizophrenic cultural production dictated by metanarratives that impose a "natural law" as if this is the absolute way things are, beyond reach. To accept that, and declare ourselves postpolitical, is to give in to Lyotard's end of history argument--victory of capitalism and victory of a cycle of recurring self referential eurocentric repetition. For us colonials, hell no, we have just begun to properly dismantle colonial itself.


 


On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:57 AM, acpollack2@juno.com &lt;acpollack2@juno.com&gt; wrote:
So true, Shaista!
Now the GREEKS are political: they have actual leftist parties, some of which were with the masses yesterday trying to occupy the (political) Parliament to stop the (political) austerity vote in hopes of leading to a new (political) world.
Time for us to learn to speak Greek (and walk like an Egyptian)!
 
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article2330 

 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: shaista husain &lt;shaistahusain@gmail.com&gt;
To: september17@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Proposal on the agenda for tonight's GA
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:53:12 -0400

how can we be post political when we have yet to be political? We are in fact, compared to movements outside the U.S "prepolitical" in my humble opinion.we have a lot to learn and catch up on.. so post means we have moved beyond something--i doubt it, if we want to move beyond something, let;s try to move beyond chauvinism.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 5:59 AM, &lt;jemcgloin@verizon.net&gt; wrote:
We are very political.� Post-political sounds orwellian to me.


On 10/19/11, Justine&lt;justine@occupywallst.org&gt; wrote:I like where you guys brought this statement. �I'll probably find somewhere on the website to post this tonight and add in the term "post-political" which is a new term I came up with for describing this movement that has so far received a great deal of consensus. �Thoughts?


On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Jon Good &lt;therealjongood@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
After a long, raging consensus process on this listserv, the following Statement of the General Assembly of People Occupying Wall Street will be proposed at tonight's GA�

THIS EMAIL IS NOT THE PLACE TO PROPOSE WORDING CHANGES. �TONIGHT'S GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS THE PLACE TO PROPOSE WORDING CHANGES
The Democratic and Republican parties do not represent the people, because they've been bought and corrupted by Wall Street, and the occupation does not support their candidates.�In collusion with both parties, only the top 1% has profited at the expense of everyone else. We have moved beyond false hopes, submission�to�eloquent speeches, and populist manipulation.�We rely on cooperation and solidarity to imagine and create the changes needed for a sustainable world.�From diverse multicultural, racial, ethnic, social, sexual and gender backgrounds and from�different walks of life, we have begun to unite on common ground�to oust�the global financial powers that have bought our governments and�who�hold us hostage to their greed.�


THIS EMAIL IS NOT THE PLACE TO PROPOSE WORDING CHANGES. �TONIGHT'S GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS THE PLACE TO PROPOSE WORDING CHANGES






 






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