> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Lycophidion <lycophid...@gmail.com
> > You are thinking too small, Rob. Again, I repeat, the movement is
> > independent of and transcends the Zuccotti Park encampment. The
> > MOVEMENT -- mostly non-camping trade unions -- mobilized 20,000 people
> > on October 5. The MOVEMENT successfully defended the encampment a week
> > ago, and then mobilized against the banks. The MOVEMENT has staged
> > occupations in, what? --150 U.S. cities? The MOVEMENT has arguably
> > led autoworkers at Ford to reject a giveback contract, railroad
> > workers to threaten a strike forcing Obama to impose the NRLA and put
> > the fear of God into Sotheby's, possibly leading to a prompt
> > settlement for the locked-out Teamsters. In the coming weeks, there
> > will be further massive rallies by labor and other sectors that see
> > themselves as a part of the OWS movement. This movement, I believe,
> > will continue regardless of whether we remain in Zuccotti or not.
> > It's absolutely false that "If it's "on our own terms" then it means
> > "we give up because we can't handle the cold." A big part of the art
> > of revolutionary politics is to choose the time and place, the
> > terrain, the conditions, for struggle that are most favorable to your
> > side.
> > It is true that Zuccotti remains a symbol. But, this can work against
> > us, just as well as for us. Following a series of victories, such as
> > Sotheby's, and big marches, an orderly withdrawal will preserve the
> > symbolism of the encampment. And, again, it can be resumed at our
> > convenience. Police repression of a small, demoralized, exhausted and
> > isolated group of campers may well destroy the symbolism of the
> > encampment and demoralize us and our allies.
> > And what you are essentially suggesting is that folks become martyrs.
> > But, first, a useless act of martyrdom is far worse than a dignified
> > withdrawal, and second, we don't need martyrs. We need healthy
> > activists with high morale.
> > Finally, all I suggested was drawing up a contingency plan, which
> > hurts no one.
> > On Oct 22, 5:00 pm, rob hollander <les...@gmail.com
> > > If it's "on our own terms" then it means "we give up because we can't
> > handle
> > > the cold." Most of the public will be sympathetic, but critics will
> > target
> > > occupiers derisively as a bunch of warm-weather partiers.
> > > But if the mayor evicts the occupation, the *he*'s the target. A movement
> > > needs attention to grow and a target (witness Tony 'Baloney'). You don't
> > > want to be sidelined, especially through this election.
> > > --
> > > Rob Hollander
> > > Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Developmenthttp://
> > savethelowereastside.blogspot.com/
> > > 622 E 11, #10
> > > NYC, 10009
> > > 212-228-6152