From:   Han Shan <coldmtn@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:07:02 PM
To:   pr-working-group@googlegroups.com
Cc:   pr-working-group@googlegroups.com; globalrevolutionmedia@googlegroups.com; 917-arts-and-culture@googlegroups.com; drew@kernandlead.com; owsinfodeck@gmail.com; wintersiroco@gmail.com; aiprojectx@gmail.com; llw282@nyu.edu; graygardens11@gmail.com; modsticks@yahoo.com; julienrharrison@gmail.com; dilingual@gmail.com; ted@transcoms.com; benreynoso@gmail.com; max.hodes@gmail.com; eranvega@hotmail.com; drdobbs1@gmail.com; danzetah@gmail.com; occupythehood@gmail.com; gossridah@aol.com; prince.darnell@gmail.com; sam2454@gmail.com; tashyla@yahoo.de; ecolake@gmail.com; nvcsuzanne@gmail.com; jwedes@gmail.com; ted@tedschulman.com; naomiless@gmail.com; accountability@nycga.net; hmmpoeddp@gmail.com; carne@carneross.com; arts_culture@nycga.net; comradesbooking@gmail.com; coachingvisionaries@gmail.com; comfort@nycga.net; comfort.occupyws@gmail.com; community_relations@nycga.net; direct_action@nycga.net; owsdawg@gmail.com; ows.efficiency@gmail.com; education_empowerment@nycga.net; empowermentandeducation@gmail.com; owseswg@gmail.com; facilitation@nycga.net; mappchris@yahoo.com; jason.ahmadi@gmail.com; eric@bfd.com; design@nycga.net; owshealthcare@gmail.com; info@nycga.net; internet@nycga.cc; JDiSalvo@nyc.rr.com; roarschach@riseup.net; occupywallstlibertyplaza@gmail.com; owsmedics@gmail.com; owsminutes@gmail.com; owspeopleslibrary@gmail.com; OWSthinktank@gmail.com; opensource@nycga.cc; owsoutreach@gmail.com; Printactual@gmail.com; thedesimone@gmail.com; owsenespanol@gmail.com; charles.a.petersea@gmail.com; press@occupywallst.org; saferspacesows@gmail.com; Dilingal@gmail.com; sanitation@nycga.net; security@nycga.net; burke.art@gmail.com; owsshipping@gmail.com; info@smallbizhiresbigbizfires.org; speakeasy@nycga.net; OWSsustainability@gmail.com; scr33name@gmail.com; sandra.marie.nurse@gmail.com; yotam.marom@gmail.com; isham.christie@gmail.com; brooklynwala@gmail.com; Lopi <artist.proof@gmail.com>; Antonio Serna <antonio@muserna.org>; Kira Annika <kira.annika@gmail.com>; to Max Berger <maxberger@mac.com>; cc J. M.Smucker <jms@beyondthechoir.org>; daniel mcnair scott <danscott@riseup.net>; Nelini Stamp <neliniwfp@gmail.com>; Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com>; Michael Premo <m.premo@gmail.com>; Brooke Lehman <brookelehmannyc@gmail.com>
Subject:   SPAM-MED: [GlobalRevolutionMedia] Re: [OWS PR] (OWS is over after Tuesday) Fwd: Drumming, Urine,
 

Some folks on this list replied only to PR list & split the thread off so looping that thread (below) back in with my reply.

Take Bowling Green?

And I have ID'd what I believe is very promising 2500 sq. foot OWS working group support space in another Teacher's Union-owned bldg on Broadway (next to the one with current OWS storage in storefront) just 2 blocks south of Liberty. It's a very big office with a couple large open-plan areas that could be divided in various ways + 1 conf. room & 3 small offices (w/ doors that close) for small mtgs, quiet work, etc. It has small kitchen and dedicated bathroom and it'd be the only 'occupied' office on the floor. 

I haven't brought this to a wider group yet tho I've talked with many a wkg group mbr desperate for secure, consistent, convenient, wired, off-site work-space. It's actually quite cheap for what it is and think we can get it donated (i have leads) and find an appropriate/uncontroversial allied group to sign a month-to-month license agreement and rent it for us. No strings attached.

I also want to assemble a team to work with Shipping, Inventory & Storage (SIS) to organize, clean, and take bottom-line responsibility for the massive but inefficiently- designed/run/utilized storefront storage space. 

But even with an off-site OWS nerve center, a logistics/storage center, and now even a couple off-site industrial kitchens we're using, we need to move, expand, or maintain our occupation as the flagship in order to keep & build our power as a mvmt right now.

And we need to start doing more surprising, unpredictable, temporary, aesthetic, inspiring actions & occupations if we want "occupy" to resonate with people in the case that we can no longer maintain an occupation anywhere near Wall St. People have mentioned Battery Park and last week some folks considered taking Wash Sq. Both would be good annexes but neither would have the symbolic power of Zuccotti (or maybe Bowling Green?) as an actual liberation of Wall Sreet's space as a base for a movement to overthrow it.

-Han

Sent from mobile device; pls excuse shortcuts & typos

On Oct 23, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Jeffrey Smith <jsmith87c@gmail.com> wrote:

Just like we have to assume there are agent provocateurs among us, we must have the ability to expel people who exhibit anti-social behavior.  We support free speech and all viewpoints, but noise is a different issue.  We would have no trouble evicting someone who was violent, so why should the drumming be any different? I say it's time to use the NYPD to actually serve and protect US (for a change.)

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:31 PM, beka economopoulos<beka@notanalternative.net> wrote:
Not yet.  It's time to get our shit together.  Liberty isn't done yet, and even if we do end up moving (I have serious doubts abt the plausibilty of pulling that off) we will face the same problems, over and over again.  We have no idea how to "self-police" or deal with conflict management.  And if we can't figure that out we can't in good faith get behind this as a model for what we want the world to be.  So let's not give up, all hands on deck, let's get our shit together.

(plus other points abt symbolism of liberty square / wall street location; relity of no longer being under the radar like we were before; reality of the degree to which ally support (labor and other groups) has played a role in defending and supporting our occupation and affecting public opinion, etc etc).  

-b


On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Michael Premo <m.premo@gmail.com>wrote:
Its time to take another park. 

Michael Premo
www.michaelpremo.com


Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:16:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [OWS PR] (OWS is over after Tuesday) Fwd: Drumming, Urine,

Beka,
the situation at Liberty Square is untenable. We need to relocate the majority of our infrastructure to a considerably larger and less populated space. Battery Park is an obvious choice. The core is in the process of abandoning the environment (38 Greene, Vlad's place, my place, and so on), and if that happens Lib Sq will devolve into complete chaos.

I don't see another choice besides moving at least the majority of our movement to a different location. I know that this will be a blow, but it will at least allow us to continue existing. 

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:11 PM, beka economopoulos<beka@notanalternative.net> wrote:
All: apologies for the big cc: list, this has been a conversation happening a large number of OWS organizers, mediators, etc. for the past week+, but it hasn't been shared widely enough.  It addresses concerns that are germaine to everyone involved in the occupation, and it has become an urgent matter, so it seems time that everyone is abreast of the latest.  

I include in this thread all the working group contacts listed in a google doc of working group contacts.  Unfortunately we do not have a working group coordination listserv, so a cc: list is the only way we have to reach everyone.

* * * * * * * * 

Friends, mediation with the drummers has been called off. It has gone on for more than 2 weeks and it has reached a dead end.  The drummers formed a working group called Pulse and agreed to 2 hrs/day at times during the mediation, and more recently that changed to 4 hrs/day.  It's my feeling that we may have a fighting chance with the community board if we could indeed limit drumming and loud instrumentation to 12-2pm and 4-6pm, however that isn't what's happening.

Last night the drumming was near continuous until 10:30pm at night.  Today it began again at 11am.  The drummers are fighting amongst themselves, there is no cohesive group.  There is one assemblage called Pulse that organized most of the drummers into a group and went to GA for formal recognition and with a proposal.   

Unfortunately there is one individual who is NOT a drummer but who claims to speak for the drummers who has been a deeply disruptive force, attacking the drumming rep during the GA and derailing his proposal, disrupting the community board meeting, as well as the OWS community relations meeting.  She has also created strife and divisions within the POC caucus, calling many members who are not 'on her side' "Uncle Tom", "the 1%", "Barbie" "not Palestinian enough" "Wall Street politicians" "not black enough" "sell-outs", etc.  People have been documenting her disruptions, and her campaign of misinformation, and instigations.  She also has a documented history online of defamatory, divisive and disruptive behavior within the LGBT (esp. transgender) communities.  Her disruptions have made it hard to have constructive conversations and productive resolutions to conflicts in a variety of forums in the past several days.
 
At this point we have lost the support of allies in the Community Board, and the State Senator and city electeds who have been fighting the city to stave off our eviction, get us toilets, etc.  On Tuesday is a Community Board vote, which will be packed with media cameras and community members with real grievances. We have sadly demonstrated to them that we are unable to collectively 1) keep our space and surrounding areas clean and sanitary, 2) keep the park safe, 3) deal with internal conflict and enforce the Good Neighbor Policy that was passed by the General Assembly.

Whether or not you personally feel that the support of the community board and local residents and their reps is needed to maintain our occupation, many of us believe that maintaining Liberty Square (aka Zuccotti Park) as a flagship and nerve center for our movement right now is in fact critical to our efforts that are much bigger picture, longer term, more revolutionary than the internal conflicts that are consuming too much energy right now.  

We need to take this seriously, and be clear that if we can't deal with conflict and self-organizing then we are facing eviction very soon (this week), and the allies that helped turn out mass numbers at the last one will not be around this time, nor will the press be supportive. Additionally, Bloomberg released a statement a few days ago that said that he / the City plans to crack down on any violations as of this week.  Once we lose community and ally support at Tuesday's vote, the door is wide open for an eviction. 

What to do? We need an all hands-on-deck clean-up and everyone sharing responsibility for the Good Neighbor Policy, including enforcement of 12-2pm and 4-6pmdrumming hours.  (While recognizing that the community board has been firm that they can only support 2 hrs/day of drumming).  We should also start serious conversations internally about what this movement might I look like without Zuccotti Park / Liberty Square.  How can we set ourselves up for continued organizing and momentum without an active occupation?  I don't write this to be dramatic, it's a serious question.  If so much of our organizing time currently (for many of us, 20 hrs a day) is going to putting out fires and maintaining the space, what does it look like if we lose the space? 

-b  

---------- Forwarded message ----------


Hearing this loud and clear. There is nothing else that we are / have been working on.  Besides being an issue with the drummers themselves, it has blown up into an issue within the POC caucus and a particular disrupter/instigator who is single handedly doing a lot of damage.

At this point I am also putting time and energy into helping to set the movement up for what happens post-eviction.  We need to be ready for that, how to de-locate and continue momentum and organizing.

b

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Bill wrote:
Don't know how else to say this again.  This will be the end of ows.  If u r doing anything else but resolving this, you are making a fatal mistake.

I was there last night and was pretty upset myself.  Ows leaders need to step up.  We will help in whatever way U need.  But we can no longer protect you guys politicAlly.

I suggest you get all key leaders together and warroom this todAy and everyday til resolved

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: (community board member ally)
Date: October 23, 2011 12:40:57 PM EDT
Subject:
 Fw: Drumming, Urine,

See below. Full board vote is Tuesday.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: (community board chair)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:01:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: (list of community board members, NYC and NY state elected officials, and community org and labor leaders)
Subject: Re: Drumming, Urine,

Hi Steven,
 
   Thanks for letting me know that the drumming agreement (whether it is 2 or 4 hours per day)  is NOT being upheld. Please continue to let me know about the drumming hours until Tues, which is when CB #1 will hold our monthly full board meeting and vote on the reso passed at last Thurs. meeting.
    If you and your neighbors have the time and would care to come to the Tues meeting to speak in the Public session (3 min per person) - 
  In the meantime CB 1 will continue to work with our elected officials to make this situation better.
   Regards, Pat
   
  
 
In a me

Sent from mobile device; pls excuse shortcuts & typos

On Oct 23, 2011, at 4:11 PM, beka economopoulos <beka@notanalternative.net> wrote:

All: apologies for the big cc: list, this has been a conversation happening a large number of OWS organizers, mediators, etc. for the past week+, but it hasn't been shared widely enough.  It addresses concerns that are germaine to everyone involved in the occupation, and it has become an urgent matter, so it seems time that everyone is abreast of the latest.  

I include in this thread all the working group contacts listed in a google doc of working group contacts.  Unfortunately we do not have a working group coordination listserv, so a cc: list is the only way we have to reach everyone.

* * * * * * * * 

Friends, mediation with the drummers has been called off. It has gone on for more than 2 weeks and it has reached a dead end.  The drummers formed a working group called Pulse and agreed to 2 hrs/day at times during the mediation, and more recently that changed to 4 hrs/day.  It's my feeling that we may have a fighting chance with the community board if we could indeed limit drumming and loud instrumentation to 12-2pm and 4-6pm, however that isn't what's happening.

Last night the drumming was near continuous until 10:30pm at night.  Today it began again at 11am.  The drummers are fighting amongst themselves, there is no cohesive group.  There is one assemblage called Pulse that organized most of the drummers into a group and went to GA for formal recognition and with a proposal.   

Unfortunately there is one individual who is NOT a drummer but who claims to speak for the drummers who has been a deeply disruptive force, attacking the drumming rep during the GA and derailing his proposal, disrupting the community board meeting, as well as the OWS community relations meeting.  She has also created strife and divisions within the POC caucus, calling many members who are not 'on her side' "Uncle Tom", "the 1%", "Barbie" "not Palestinian enough" "Wall Street politicians" "not black enough" "sell-outs", etc.  People have been documenting her disruptions, and her campaign of misinformation, and instigations.  She also has a documented history online of defamatory, divisive and disruptive behavior within the LGBT (esp. transgender) communities.  Her disruptions have made it hard to have constructive conversations and productive resolutions to conflicts in a variety of forums in the past several days.
 
At this point we have lost the support of allies in the Community Board, and the State Senator and city electeds who have been fighting the city to stave off our eviction, get us toilets, etc.  On Tuesday is a Community Board vote, which will be packed with media cameras and community members with real grievances. We have sadly demonstrated to them that we are unable to collectively 1) keep our space and surrounding areas clean and sanitary, 2) keep the park safe, 3) deal with internal conflict and enforce the Good Neighbor Policy that was passed by the General Assembly.

Whether or not you personally feel that the support of the community board and local residents and their reps is needed to maintain our occupation, many of us believe that maintaining Liberty Square (aka Zuccotti Park) as a flagship and nerve center for our movement right now is in fact critical to our efforts that are much bigger picture, longer term, more revolutionary than the internal conflicts that are consuming too much energy right now.  

We need to take this seriously, and be clear that if we can't deal with conflict and self-organizing then we are facing eviction very soon (this week), and the allies that helped turn out mass numbers at the last one will not be around this time, nor will the press be supportive. Additionally, Bloomberg released a statement a few days ago that said that he / the City plans to crack down on any violations as of this week.  Once we lose community and ally support at Tuesday's vote, the door is wide open for an eviction. 

What to do? We need an all hands-on-deck clean-up and everyone sharing responsibility for the Good Neighbor Policy, including enforcement of 12-2pm and 4-6pm drumming hours.  (While recognizing that the community board has been firm that they can only support 2 hrs/day of drumming).  We should also start serious conversations internally about what this movement might I look like without Zuccotti Park / Liberty Square.  How can we set ourselves up for continued organizing and momentum without an active occupation?  I don't write this to be dramatic, it's a serious question.  If so much of our organizing time currently (for many of us, 20 hrs a day) is going to putting out fires and maintaining the space, what does it look like if we lose the space? 

-b  

---------- Forwarded message ----------


Hearing this loud and clear. There is nothing else that we are / have been working on.  Besides being an issue with the drummers themselves, it has blown up into an issue within the POC caucus and a particular disrupter/instigator who is single handedly doing a lot of damage.

At this point I am also putting time and energy into helping to set the movement up for what happens post-eviction.  We need to be ready for that, how to de-locate and continue momentum and organizing.

b

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Bill wrote:
Don't know how else to say this again.  This will be the end of ows.  If u r doing anything else but resolving this, you are making a fatal mistake.

I was there last night and was pretty upset myself.  Ows leaders need to step up.  We will help in whatever way U need.  But we can no longer protect you guys politicAlly.

I suggest you get all key leaders together and warroom this todAy and everyday til resolved

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: (community board member ally)
Date: October 23, 2011 12:40:57 PM EDT
Subject:
Fw: Drumming, Urine,

See below. Full board vote is Tuesday.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: (community board chair)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:01:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: (list of community board members, NYC and NY state elected officials, and community org and labor leaders)
Subject: Re: Drumming, Urine,

Hi Steven,
 
   Thanks for letting me know that the drumming agreement (whether it is 2 or 4 hours per day)  is NOT being upheld. Please continue to let me know about the drumming hours until Tues, which is when CB #1 will hold our monthly full board meeting and vote on the reso passed at last Thurs. meeting.
    If you and your neighbors have the time and would care to come to the Tues meeting to speak in the Public session (3 min per person) - 
  In the meantime CB 1 will continue to work with our elected officials to make this situation better.
   Regards, Pat
   
  
 
In a message dated 10/22/2011 10:34:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, writes:
Pat:
 
Unfortunately, the drumming is hellish right now, its just before 10PM and there must be 15 to 20 drummers out there beating on the drums in a frenzy.  However, they have stopped for the last half hour.  There doesn't seem to be any rules in the Park.  There is no drumming Good Neighbor Policy--their flyer no longer has anything about drumming.  I sent an email to their email address on their Community Affairs flyer, which has not been answered, and I called the phone number they have listed as a Community Affairs representative that is supposed to be answered live 24/7--I left a message for a call back on the voice mail.
 
To make matters worse, there is once again the stench of urine on the Liberty Street side of Burger King.  Even more frightening was a flyer taped to the door of our building filled with rants and ravings from some bizarre anti-OWS individual. 
 
Something changed in the last few days, perhaps its the weekend I don't know, but the feeling I get in the park is something akin to Apocalypse Now, with some very strange people, and a rather ominous feeling.  I'm very uncomfortable in and around the park--its a bizarre spectacle, and what kind of world do we live in where you walk out of your door overpowered by the stench of urine.
 
Pat, again, thank you for being on the frontlines here and working so hard to make our neighborhood livable after its been under siege for so long, but now we have some new strange, living organism within our midsts.
 
I think the NYPD representatives, state and city officials, in particular the Mayor's office, on this email need to hear that as a downtown resident of New York, I am getting frightened by what I am seeing, and a neighborhood for which millions of dollars is being spent to be the jewel of the city is getting urinated on.  The stench of urine not less than 100-200 feet from where thousands of people lost their lives, its really a disgrace.  I don't know what we can do about this, if anything. 
 
Steven  

 



From: (community board chair)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 12:01:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Drumming
To: (community board members)


Hi Steven,
 
   Thanks so much for the update. If you're home during the day would you let me know when the drumming stops and starts again, we need to track for a few days before we see what our next step should be.
    I'm hoping, as are all of us, that  the PA construction noise at least is limited to times when we are not trying to sleep. The 2 AM stop time is totally unreasonable !!!!!
    We'll all continue to work on the quality of life issues making living here "a little slice of hell".
     Have a good weekend, Pat
 
In a message dated 10/22/2011 11:37:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  writes:
Hi Pat, per your request to notify you when the drumming begins.  Its Saturday, October 22, at 11:30AM and the drumming has begun.  I spoke with State Senator Daniel Squadron last night who told me he is working hard on this issue, and I'm sure he's not the only one, so let's hope he, others in government, and CB1  has some success.  Also, the hammering at the 130 Liberty St site is also going on, so we have a real symphony.  I understand you're working with the PA to at least stop the late night pounding--that would also be a great accomplishment.  Thanks!
 

=
=

 
 


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