Sent time:   Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:33:47 PM
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2

I think these critcis are apt, however I wanted to point out that many

of us could never imagie what Occupy has accomplished


-----Original Message-----

From: rob hollander <>

To: september17 <>

Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 2:32 pm

Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2


+1, Charlie.



On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Charlie Grapski

&lt;; wrote:

Also I forgot to note.  I think trying to call on a national general

strike for that day is premature.  It won't likely happen.  But what

happens in Oakland can be considered a success regardless of the numbers

they draw (and I suspect they will draw a large number) and without

necessarily physically shutting down the local system (although I

predict that that system will be heavily taxed on Wednesday).


But a national general strike would not be able to claim success on that

scale and level.  And it would be viewed as a failure by critics - and

would even disillusion a number of supporters. 


That time has not come yet - I don't believe.


But if there is a national ACTION in conjunction with the Oakland

General Strike - it will BOLSTER the Oakland strike.


And it will be key - as the critical moment will be after the Oakland

march - in the evening - as the 10 pm and 11 pm hours approach - and the

officials call for their "parks" to be closed.  It will have everyone

sitting on pins and needles watching everywhere - from Wall Street to

Main Street - to see what localities will turn a blind eye and allow the

occupation of public space - and which will dare (in light of the

Oakland focus) to become associated with the crackdowns.





On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Charlie Grapski

&lt;; wrote:

Here is what I would propose for a MASS (nationwide) day of action in

support of Oakland.  It would be simple and effective - and would

bolster whatever materializes in Oakland.


And it would focus on what we have now clearly demonstrated as a key and

vital issue - taking back public spaces as necessary for democracy (and

without which the first amendment rights are "mere parchment barriers"

that neither guarantee nor protect anything in practice).


To seek change - we need to have our voices heard; to have our voices

heard - we need a public sphere within which to exercise that voice; to

have a public sphere - we need public spaces - that are free from

government restrictions and restraints.


I would propose that we call upon ALL OCCUPATIONS to consciously OCCUPY

a central public space in their community for the 24 hour period

starting with the march in Oakland (and going through the night).


I would also put a call out for all VETERANS groups and veterans to be

among those occupying and "defending" that ground that night.


In some places this would merely be the existing occupation continuing

to do what it already is doing - but declaring it such in solidarity

with Oakland (and again I would stress getting the nation's vets out in

full force - this is the catalyst to do it) - and having a LARGER number

there that night (encouraging those who cannot occupy 24 hours - to take

that night off - and stay in their public space).


In others, however, there have been real struggles to be able to freely

assemble in public spaces - as the nation has tended, at a local level,

to turn all public spaces into regulated "parks" with official opening

and closing hours, permits and fees, etc.


While this, in and of itself (declaring a space a park and regulating

its use), is not problematic or offensive - it BECOMES so when ALL

public space has been defined as such and brought under that guise.


If and when that happens (and we now have abundant evidence clearly

displayed to the Nation who may not have realized this before - that it

has ALREADY happened) - we have already LOST our first amendment rights

(protected - not granted - as these are inalienable rights ... as

necessary to the other inalienable rights (not exclusive) emphasized in

the Declaration of Independence (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of



And without such we cannot be full citizens - but have been rendered

mere subjects.


The wholesale redefinition of public space as government-regulated space

negates the notion of public space in its strongest sense.  And because

all space is then either private (and thus restricted) and

government-regulated (and thus restricted) - this has the SAME EFFECT as

if Congress passed a single law abridging these rights - which violates

the Constitution's protection thereof.


We need to take back our public space.  And the November 2nd event in

Oakland - and the other night's violent crackdown - give us, NATIONALLY,

an opportunity to take that stand formally.


This would be simple to organize - as it would only require local

organization.  The only thing would be getting the word out - and

getting the idea a general consensus on the ground to start. 


This would be the moment that we could encourage those localities which

have not yet fully challenged the limits on their rights to do so - as

they would have (a) national support; and (b) a national cause.


It would both stand in solidarity and support of Oakland - and in honor

of its victims - but also would be taking a stand for our rights



What do people think?



On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:43 AM, rob hollander &lt;;


Bear in mind that the news from Oakland is by no means over. There will

be more protests there and much more focused attention. Olson is still

in hospital and still in critical condition and still a veteran of the

Iraqi War. An awakening doesn't appear overnight. And the First

Amendment issue will resonate too -- it is cherished among Americans.

The outrage is stepping up.



On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Bailey McCann

&lt;; wrote:

I think we need to remain realistic here.  Getting labor support and

calling a general strike are two very different things. The Oakland

action may be successful given what happened on Tuesday but this isn't

Egypt yet. I think solidarity actions are more advisable than being the

movement that cried wolf on a general strike.


Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 27, 2011, at 2:30 PM, ""

&lt;; wrote:




I assumed we were talking about whether an Oakland general strike was


As for NYC -- we are NOWHERE near that.

TWU struck in defiance of the Taylor Law over their contract, and got

away with it (except for withdrawal of their dues collection rights,

which was a heavy blow). 

But even that was a very rare occasion.

Who knows, maybe we'll see in NYC soon another Republic Windows (they

occupied their factory three years ago).

This question came up in the Labor Outreach Committee last week, and I

proposed that while we were nowhere near calling for a general strike,

we SHOULD begin producing educational materials explaining why one would

be possible and desirable, i.e. flyers and speeches explaining how ALL 

NYC public sector works are getting screwed on the job, and how ALL NYC

workers, private, public or unemployed, are getting screwed by the cuts

in services.

In the meantime, let's follow the lead of the Education workers who shut

down the PEP and held an Education GA.




---------- Original Message ----------

From: shaista husain &lt;;


Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2

Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:25:55 -0400


It depends on the mobilization of the people.. In Tahrir, for example,

the first general strike was called for on Feb 1st, quite early at the

start....but then again every mother, uncle and child was calling for

the ousting of Mubarak--everyone was on the streets, everyone.. So the

there has to be incredible unity of purpose and goals, which i believe

Oakland and Atlanta have--against the penal injustices and long

standing grievances against police brutality, but does NYC have this

unity and force among the workers, AT THE MOMENT== it is they who

decide, not the GA, we can call and scream all we want, But, we should

be in unity with the workers -the OWS GA might not have any "demands"

but working people when they strike, always have demands--a clear

purpose and goal. Really only labor outreach can inform us of this.


On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Ben &lt;; wrote:

&gt; A true general strike will take a long time to organize but I think


&gt; can be done. We just can't call for a general strike and have


&gt; happen however. In fact it'd kill the movement. My two cents is a

&gt; general strike should be something we should build up to


&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:08 AM, shaista husain

&gt; &lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt; Must agree with Grim--also Rob, who knows? A general strike is


&gt;&gt; business--is it possible to mobilize such an action right now,


&gt;&gt; has been mobilized against police repression because that is

the daily

&gt;&gt; condition for a long time, as in Atlanta, the death penalty and


&gt;&gt; Davis--has been building up against penal justice. To call for


&gt;&gt; general strike--our labor outreach should inform further....



&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, grimwomyn

&lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; err- "day after"


&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, grimwomyn

&lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the national standing "dat after" plan is genius and

should be

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implemented, this should be proposed at the GA today?


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:04 AM,

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; �I would be skeptical about this becoming a real

general strike, but whereas

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a month ago I would have ridiculed the notion,

now.... who knows!

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile on the Labor Outreach list one person

asked if we should do a

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solidarity action in NYC next Wednesday. And I

asked about

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a�national�standing "day after" plan, i.e.�just as

we do for expected

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; attacks by the US or Israel, an agreement that when

any Occupy site is

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; attacked, the next day all Occupy sites will have

special solidarity marches

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or other events.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Andy


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ---------- Original Message ----------

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Ben &lt;;

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of

Action: Nov 2

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:59:41 -0400


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Absolutely. If we can get some serious strike

action our protests will

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be a lot more scary.


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Labor is going to be key in the long run.


&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:55 AM, grimwomyn

&lt;; wrote:


















Rob Hollander

Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development

622 E 11, #10

NYC, 10009















Rob Hollander

Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development

622 E 11, #10

NYC, 10009