From:   grimwomyn <>
Sent time:   Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:36:20 PM
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2

Agreed and we are on internet time right now being covered by all major networks....

On Oct 27, 2011 2:34 PM, <> wrote:
I think these critcis are apt, however I wanted to point out that many of us could never imagie what Occupy has accomplished

-----Original Message-----
From: rob hollander <>
To: september17 <>
Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2

+1, Charlie.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Charlie Grapski &lt;; wrote:
Also I forgot to note.  I think trying to call on a national general strike for that day is premature.  It won't likely happen.  But what happens in Oakland can be considered a success regardless of the numbers they draw (and I suspect they will draw a large number) and without necessarily physically shutting down the local system (although I predict that that system will be heavily taxed on Wednesday).

But a national general strike would not be able to claim success on that scale and level.  And it would be viewed as a failure by critics - and would even disillusion a number of supporters. 

That time has not come yet - I don't believe.

But if there is a national ACTION in conjunction with the Oakland General Strike - it will BOLSTER the Oakland strike.

And it will be key - as the critical moment will be after the Oakland march - in the evening - as the 10 pm and 11 pm hours approach - and the officials call for their "parks" to be closed.  It will have everyone sitting on pins and needles watching everywhere - from Wall Street to Main Street - to see what localities will turn a blind eye and allow the occupation of public space - and which will dare (in light of the Oakland focus) to become associated with the crackdowns.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Charlie Grapski &lt;; wrote:
Here is what I would propose for a MASS (nationwide) day of action in support of Oakland.  It would be simple and effective - and would bolster whatever materializes in Oakland.

And it would focus on what we have now clearly demonstrated as a key and vital issue - taking back public spaces as necessary for democracy (and without which the first amendment rights are "mere parchment barriers" that neither guarantee nor protect anything in practice).

To seek change - we need to have our voices heard; to have our voices heard - we need a public sphere within which to exercise that voice; to have a public sphere - we need public spaces - that are free from government restrictions and restraints.

I would propose that we call upon ALL OCCUPATIONS to consciously OCCUPY a central public space in their community for the 24 hour period starting with the march in Oakland (and going through the night).

I would also put a call out for all VETERANS groups and veterans to be among those occupying and "defending" that ground that night.

In some places this would merely be the existing occupation continuing to do what it already is doing - but declaring it such in solidarity with Oakland (and again I would stress getting the nation's vets out in full force - this is the catalyst to do it) - and having a LARGER number there that night (encouraging those who cannot occupy 24 hours - to take that night off - and stay in their public space).

In others, however, there have been real struggles to be able to freely assemble in public spaces - as the nation has tended, at a local level, to turn all public spaces into regulated "parks" with official opening and closing hours, permits and fees, etc.

While this, in and of itself (declaring a space a park and regulating its use), is not problematic or offensive - it BECOMES so when ALL public space has been defined as such and brought under that guise.

If and when that happens (and we now have abundant evidence clearly displayed to the Nation who may not have realized this before - that it has ALREADY happened) - we have already LOST our first amendment rights (protected - not granted - as these are inalienable rights ... as necessary to the other inalienable rights (not exclusive) emphasized in the Declaration of Independence (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness).

And without such we cannot be full citizens - but have been rendered mere subjects.

The wholesale redefinition of public space as government-regulated space negates the notion of public space in its strongest sense.  And because all space is then either private (and thus restricted) and government-regulated (and thus restricted) - this has the SAME EFFECT as if Congress passed a single law abridging these rights - which violates the Constitution's protection thereof.

We need to take back our public space.  And the November 2nd event in Oakland - and the other night's violent crackdown - give us, NATIONALLY, an opportunity to take that stand formally.

This would be simple to organize - as it would only require local organization.  The only thing would be getting the word out - and getting the idea a general consensus on the ground to start. 

This would be the moment that we could encourage those localities which have not yet fully challenged the limits on their rights to do so - as they would have (a) national support; and (b) a national cause.

It would both stand in solidarity and support of Oakland - and in honor of its victims - but also would be taking a stand for our rights locally.

What do people think?

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:43 AM, rob hollander &lt;; wrote:
Bear in mind that the news from Oakland is by no means over. There will be more protests there and much more focused attention. Olson is still in hospital and still in critical condition and still a veteran of the Iraqi War. An awakening doesn't appear overnight. And the First Amendment issue will resonate too -- it is cherished among Americans. The outrage is stepping up.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Bailey McCann &lt;; wrote:
I think we need to remain realistic here.  Getting labor support and calling a general strike are two very different things. The Oakland action may be successful given what happened on Tuesday but this isn't Egypt yet. I think solidarity actions are more advisable than being the movement that cried wolf on a general strike.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 27, 2011, at 2:30 PM, "" &lt;; wrote:

I assumed we were talking about whether an Oakland general strike was feasible.
As for NYC -- we are NOWHERE near that.
TWU struck in defiance of the Taylor Law over their contract, and got away with it (except for withdrawal of their dues collection rights, which was a heavy blow). 
But even that was a very rare occasion.
Who knows, maybe we'll see in NYC soon another Republic Windows (they occupied their factory three years ago).
This question came up in the Labor Outreach Committee last week, and I proposed that while we were nowhere near calling for a general strike, we SHOULD begin producing educational materials explaining why one would be possible and desirable, i.e. flyers and speeches explaining how ALL NYC public sector works are getting screwed on the job, and how ALL NYC workers, private, public or unemployed, are getting screwed by the cuts in services.
In the meantime, let's follow the lead of the Education workers who shut down the PEP and held an Education GA.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: shaista husain &lt;;
Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:25:55 -0400

It depends on the mobilization of the people.. In Tahrir, for example,
the first general strike was called for on Feb 1st, quite early at the
start....but then again every mother, uncle and child was calling for
the ousting of Mubarak--everyone was on the streets, everyone.. So the
there has to be incredible unity of purpose and goals, which i believe
Oakland and Atlanta have--against the penal injustices and long
standing grievances against police brutality, but does NYC have this
unity and force among the workers, AT THE MOMENT== it is they who
decide, not the GA, we can call and scream all we want, But, we should
be in unity with the workers -the OWS GA might not have any "demands"
but working people when they strike, always have demands--a clear
purpose and goal. Really only labor outreach can inform us of this.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Ben &lt;; wrote:
&gt; A true general strike will take a long time to organize but I think it
&gt; can be done. We just can't call for a general strike and have nothing
&gt; happen however. In fact it'd kill the movement. My two cents is a
&gt; general strike should be something we should build up to
&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:08 AM, shaista husain
&gt; &lt;; wrote:
&gt;&gt; Must agree with Grim--also Rob, who knows? A general strike is serious
&gt;&gt; business--is it possible to mobilize such an action right now, Oakland
&gt;&gt; has been mobilized against police repression because that is the daily
&gt;&gt; condition for a long time, as in Atlanta, the death penalty and Troy
&gt;&gt; Davis--has been building up against penal justice. To call for a
&gt;&gt; general strike--our labor outreach should inform further....
&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, grimwomyn &lt;; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; err- "day after"
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM, grimwomyn &lt;; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the national standing "dat after" plan is genius and should be
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implemented, this should be proposed at the GA today?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:04 AM,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; �I would be skeptical about this becoming a real general strike, but whereas
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a month ago I would have ridiculed the notion, now.... who knows!
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile on the Labor Outreach list one person asked if we should do a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; solidarity action in NYC next Wednesday. And I asked about
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a�national�standing "day after" plan, i.e.�just as we do for expected
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; attacks by the US or Israel, an agreement that when any Occupy site is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; attacked, the next day all Occupy sites will have special solidarity marches
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or other events.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Andy
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ---------- Original Message ----------
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Ben &lt;;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Mass Day of Action: Nov 2
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:59:41 -0400
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Absolutely. If we can get some serious strike action our protests will
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be a lot more scary.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Labor is going to be key in the long run.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:55 AM, grimwomyn &lt;; wrote:

Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009

Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009