From:   Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:09:06 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

I'm confused - is the whole discussion moving to another forum - or simply discussions of particular solidarity points?

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:
Link, please?


On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote:
EXACTLY let's move to the same WEB page. The GA group mentioned a few threads before
Cesar

Sent from phone




On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:39 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cesar, the Principles of Solidarity--is going to erupt heated
> debates--needed ones--and welcome all contributions--and diverse
> viewpoints--and should be encouraged in a manner that in inclusive
> BUT can we all be on the same PAGE...
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree that the "individual" one ought to be paired with a "societal" one -
>> to emphasize the "I" and the "We" role of (I hate to use it again - but
>> please recognize my use of it versus the excluding concept) of citizens in a
>> democracy.  And how the two are inherently intertwined (actually are one)
>> and interdependent (one cannot exist or flourish without the other).
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would block this document.
>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory democracy
>>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."
>>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.
>>> We should not exclude them in this document.
>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to achieve
>>> true democracy in practice
>>> True democracy will never come with reforms.
>>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it for
>>> revolution!
>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.
>>> We should seek to liberate space.
>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility
>>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.
>>>
>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence these
>>> have on social interactions
>>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.
>>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.
>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression
>>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,
>>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.
>>>
>>> Redefining and revaluing labor
>>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.
>>>
>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.
>>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the collective.
>>> It's unclear.
>>>
>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a societal
>>> responsibility;
>>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?
>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open source
>>> principles and concepts.
>>>
>>> Ok. I'm down with open source
>>>
>>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar
>>> frameworks.
>>> In solidarity,
>>> Marisa
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked with
>>>> strikeout and amend.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be better
>>>>> if you send your comments
>>>>> to http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or
>>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts and
>>>>> comments of everybody else.
>>>>> Cesar
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please
>>>>>> comment:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of America
>>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in our times
>>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within a
>>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political
>>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.  We spoke
>>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves as a
>>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent civil
>>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect, acceptance,
>>>>>> and love.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the Nation
>>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans and to
>>>>>> the world:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for action.
>>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future. Through
>>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and crafted
>>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity include but
>>>>>> are not limited to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory democracy;
>>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;
>>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
>>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence these
>>>>>> have on social interactions;
>>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
>>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;
>>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;
>>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>>>>>> societal responsibility; and
>>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open source
>>>>>> principles and concepts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic
>>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality and
>>>>>> justice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of
>>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate these into
>>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in the United
>>>>>> States and the wider world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of the Principles
>>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
>>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of Solidarity of
>>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the General
>>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the occupation.
>>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each consolidated
>>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA break out
>>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September 23. It, along
>>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus. This
>>>>>>> (working) draft is online at: nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.
>>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however, is not
>>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are moving the
>>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible (keeping in
>>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and keeps
>>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity originated
>>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic process of
>>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the process in
>>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does not write
>>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to structure a
>>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the same
>>>>>>> principle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks recently,
>>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along. We are still
>>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first time we are
>>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus. We welcome
>>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be helpful to
>>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to copy and
>>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be synthesizing these
>>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group) and will
>>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in the next
>>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are also here
>>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to the
>>>>>>> principles document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Make edits!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document (including
>>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please send an
>>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to arrange a
>>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the task,
>>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are looking
>>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other structural
>>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like documents,
>>>>>>> forums, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>


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