From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:11:27 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

Do men just talk to each other here? Not to be rude, but i sometimes

wonder why this is the case.

The latest document, as i mentioned three times is

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-2-a-different-voicestructural-approach

 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm confused - is the whole discussion moving to another forum - or simply

> discussions of particular solidarity points?

>

> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> Link, please?

>>

>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>

>>> EXACTLY let's move to the same WEB page. The GA group mentioned a few

>>> threads before

>>> Cesar

>>>

>>> Sent from phone

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:39 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>> > Cesar, the Principles of Solidarity--is going to erupt heated

>>> > debates--needed ones--and welcome all contributions--and diverse

>>> > viewpoints--and should be encouraged in a manner that in inclusive

>>> > BUT can we all be on the same PAGE...

>>> >

>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>> > wrote:

>>> >> I agree that the "individual" one ought to be paired with a "societal"

>>> >> one -

>>> >> to emphasize the "I" and the "We" role of (I hate to use it again -

>>> >> but

>>> >> please recognize my use of it versus the excluding concept) of

>>> >> citizens in a

>>> >> democracy.  And how the two are inherently intertwined (actually are

>>> >> one)

>>> >> and interdependent (one cannot exist or flourish without the other).

>>> >>

>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes

>>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>

>>> >> wrote:

>>> >>>

>>> >>> I would block this document.

>>> >>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>> >>> democracy

>>> >>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."

>>> >>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.

>>> >>> We should not exclude them in this document.

>>> >>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>> >>> achieve

>>> >>> true democracy in practice

>>> >>> True democracy will never come with reforms.

>>> >>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it

>>> >>> for

>>> >>> revolution!

>>> >>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>> >>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.

>>> >>> We should seek to liberate space.

>>> >>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility

>>> >>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>> >>> these

>>> >>> have on social interactions

>>> >>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.

>>> >>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.

>>> >>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression

>>> >>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,

>>> >>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Redefining and revaluing labor

>>> >>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.

>>> >>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the

>>> >>> collective.

>>> >>> It's unclear.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>> >>> societal

>>> >>> responsibility;

>>> >>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?

>>> >>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>> >>> source

>>> >>> principles and concepts.

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Ok. I'm down with open source

>>> >>>

>>> >>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar

>>> >>> frameworks.

>>> >>> In solidarity,

>>> >>> Marisa

>>> >>>

>>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski

>>> >>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>> >>> wrote:

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked

>>> >>>> with

>>> >>>> strikeout and amend.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco

>>> >>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>> >>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be

>>> >>>>> better

>>> >>>>> if you send your comments

>>> >>>>> to

>>> >>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or

>>> >>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts

>>> >>>>> and

>>> >>>>> comments of everybody else.

>>> >>>>> Cesar

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski

>>> >>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>> >>>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please

>>> >>>>>> comment:

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of

>>> >>>>>> America

>>> >>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in

>>> >>>>>> our times

>>> >>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within

>>> >>>>>> a

>>> >>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political

>>> >>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.

>>> >>>>>>  We spoke

>>> >>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves

>>> >>>>>> as a

>>> >>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent

>>> >>>>>> civil

>>> >>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,

>>> >>>>>> acceptance,

>>> >>>>>> and love.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the

>>> >>>>>> Nation

>>> >>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans

>>> >>>>>> and to

>>> >>>>>> the world:

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for

>>> >>>>>> action.

>>> >>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.

>>> >>>>>> Through

>>> >>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and

>>> >>>>>> crafted

>>> >>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity

>>> >>>>>> include but

>>> >>>>>> are not limited to:

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>> >>>>>> democracy;

>>> >>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>> >>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;

>>> >>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>> >>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>> >>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>> >>>>>> these

>>> >>>>>> have on social interactions;

>>> >>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>> >>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;

>>> >>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;

>>> >>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>> >>>>>> societal responsibility; and

>>> >>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>> >>>>>> source

>>> >>>>>> principles and concepts.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic

>>> >>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality

>>> >>>>>> and

>>> >>>>>> justice.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of

>>> >>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate

>>> >>>>>> these into

>>> >>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in

>>> >>>>>> the United

>>> >>>>>> States and the wider world.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco

>>> >>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>> >>>>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of the

>>> >>>>>>> Principles

>>> >>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of

>>> >>>>>>> Solidarity of

>>> >>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the

>>> >>>>>>> General

>>> >>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the

>>> >>>>>>> occupation.

>>> >>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each

>>> >>>>>>> consolidated

>>> >>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA

>>> >>>>>>> break out

>>> >>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September

>>> >>>>>>> 23. It, along

>>> >>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.

>>> >>>>>>> This

>>> >>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:

>>> >>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.

>>> >>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,

>>> >>>>>>> is not

>>> >>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are

>>> >>>>>>> moving the

>>> >>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible

>>> >>>>>>> (keeping in

>>> >>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and

>>> >>>>>>> keeps

>>> >>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity

>>> >>>>>>> originated

>>> >>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic

>>> >>>>>>> process of

>>> >>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the

>>> >>>>>>> process in

>>> >>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does

>>> >>>>>>> not write

>>> >>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to

>>> >>>>>>> structure a

>>> >>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the

>>> >>>>>>> same

>>> >>>>>>> principle.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks

>>> >>>>>>> recently,

>>> >>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.

>>> >>>>>>> We are still

>>> >>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first

>>> >>>>>>> time we are

>>> >>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.

>>> >>>>>>> We welcome

>>> >>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be

>>> >>>>>>> helpful to

>>> >>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to

>>> >>>>>>> copy and

>>> >>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be

>>> >>>>>>> synthesizing these

>>> >>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)

>>> >>>>>>> and will

>>> >>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in

>>> >>>>>>> the next

>>> >>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are

>>> >>>>>>> also here

>>> >>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to

>>> >>>>>>> the

>>> >>>>>>> principles document.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> 1. Make edits!

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document

>>> >>>>>>> (including

>>> >>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please

>>> >>>>>>> send an

>>> >>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to

>>> >>>>>>> arrange a

>>> >>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the

>>> >>>>>>> task,

>>> >>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are

>>> >>>>>>> looking

>>> >>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other

>>> >>>>>>> structural

>>> >>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like

>>> >>>>>>> documents,

>>> >>>>>>> forums, etc.

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>

>

>

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