From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:12:35 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

Marisa, please please reach out to Kelley who has been very

frustrated.. and set up a meeting with her to include voices that have

not been included.

 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand now - taking it off the email list - and onto the web page for

> the group.  Makes sense.

>

> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

> wrote:

>>

>> I'm confused - is the whole discussion moving to another forum - or simply

>> discussions of particular solidarity points?

>>

>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Link, please?

>>>

>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> EXACTLY let's move to the same WEB page. The GA group mentioned a few

>>>> threads before

>>>> Cesar

>>>>

>>>> Sent from phone

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:39 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> > Cesar, the Principles of Solidarity--is going to erupt heated

>>>> > debates--needed ones--and welcome all contributions--and diverse

>>>> > viewpoints--and should be encouraged in a manner that in inclusive

>>>> > BUT can we all be on the same PAGE...

>>>> >

>>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>>> > wrote:

>>>> >> I agree that the "individual" one ought to be paired with a

>>>> >> "societal" one -

>>>> >> to emphasize the "I" and the "We" role of (I hate to use it again -

>>>> >> but

>>>> >> please recognize my use of it versus the excluding concept) of

>>>> >> citizens in a

>>>> >> democracy.  And how the two are inherently intertwined (actually are

>>>> >> one)

>>>> >> and interdependent (one cannot exist or flourish without the other).

>>>> >>

>>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes

>>>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>

>>>> >> wrote:

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> I would block this document.

>>>> >>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>>> >>> democracy

>>>> >>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."

>>>> >>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.

>>>> >>> We should not exclude them in this document.

>>>> >>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>>> >>> achieve

>>>> >>> true democracy in practice

>>>> >>> True democracy will never come with reforms.

>>>> >>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it

>>>> >>> for

>>>> >>> revolution!

>>>> >>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>>> >>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.

>>>> >>> We should seek to liberate space.

>>>> >>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility

>>>> >>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>>> >>> these

>>>> >>> have on social interactions

>>>> >>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.

>>>> >>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.

>>>> >>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression

>>>> >>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,

>>>> >>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Redefining and revaluing labor

>>>> >>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.

>>>> >>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the

>>>> >>> collective.

>>>> >>> It's unclear.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>>> >>> societal

>>>> >>> responsibility;

>>>> >>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?

>>>> >>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>>> >>> source

>>>> >>> principles and concepts.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Ok. I'm down with open source

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar

>>>> >>> frameworks.

>>>> >>> In solidarity,

>>>> >>> Marisa

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski

>>>> >>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>>> >>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked

>>>> >>>> with

>>>> >>>> strikeout and amend.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco

>>>> >>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be

>>>> >>>>> better

>>>> >>>>> if you send your comments

>>>> >>>>> to

>>>> >>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or

>>>> >>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts

>>>> >>>>> and

>>>> >>>>> comments of everybody else.

>>>> >>>>> Cesar

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski

>>>> >>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please

>>>> >>>>>> comment:

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of

>>>> >>>>>> America

>>>> >>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant

>>>> >>>>>> in our times

>>>> >>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites

>>>> >>>>>> within a

>>>> >>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political

>>>> >>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.

>>>> >>>>>>  We spoke

>>>> >>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves

>>>> >>>>>> as a

>>>> >>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent

>>>> >>>>>> civil

>>>> >>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,

>>>> >>>>>> acceptance,

>>>> >>>>>> and love.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the

>>>> >>>>>> Nation

>>>> >>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans

>>>> >>>>>> and to

>>>> >>>>>> the world:

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for

>>>> >>>>>> action.

>>>> >>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.

>>>> >>>>>> Through

>>>> >>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals

>>>> >>>>>> and crafted

>>>> >>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity

>>>> >>>>>> include but

>>>> >>>>>> are not limited to:

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>>> >>>>>> democracy;

>>>> >>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>>> >>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;

>>>> >>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>>> >>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>>> >>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>>> >>>>>> these

>>>> >>>>>> have on social interactions;

>>>> >>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>>> >>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;

>>>> >>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;

>>>> >>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>>> >>>>>> societal responsibility; and

>>>> >>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>>> >>>>>> source

>>>> >>>>>> principles and concepts.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic

>>>> >>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality

>>>> >>>>>> and

>>>> >>>>>> justice.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of

>>>> >>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate

>>>> >>>>>> these into

>>>> >>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in

>>>> >>>>>> the United

>>>> >>>>>> States and the wider world.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco

>>>> >>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of the

>>>> >>>>>>> Principles

>>>> >>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of

>>>> >>>>>>> Solidarity of

>>>> >>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the

>>>> >>>>>>> General

>>>> >>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the

>>>> >>>>>>> occupation.

>>>> >>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each

>>>> >>>>>>> consolidated

>>>> >>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by

>>>> >>>>>>> GA break out

>>>> >>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September

>>>> >>>>>>> 23. It, along

>>>> >>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.

>>>> >>>>>>> This

>>>> >>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:

>>>> >>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.

>>>> >>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,

>>>> >>>>>>> is not

>>>> >>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are

>>>> >>>>>>> moving the

>>>> >>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible

>>>> >>>>>>> (keeping in

>>>> >>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and

>>>> >>>>>>> keeps

>>>> >>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity

>>>> >>>>>>> originated

>>>> >>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct

>>>> >>>>>>> democratic process of

>>>> >>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the

>>>> >>>>>>> process in

>>>> >>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does

>>>> >>>>>>> not write

>>>> >>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to

>>>> >>>>>>> structure a

>>>> >>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the

>>>> >>>>>>> same

>>>> >>>>>>> principle.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks

>>>> >>>>>>> recently,

>>>> >>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.

>>>> >>>>>>> We are still

>>>> >>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first

>>>> >>>>>>> time we are

>>>> >>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA

>>>> >>>>>>> consensus. We welcome

>>>> >>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be

>>>> >>>>>>> helpful to

>>>> >>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be

>>>> >>>>>>> to copy and

>>>> >>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be

>>>> >>>>>>> synthesizing these

>>>> >>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)

>>>> >>>>>>> and will

>>>> >>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in

>>>> >>>>>>> the next

>>>> >>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents

>>>> >>>>>>> are also here

>>>> >>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers

>>>> >>>>>>> to the

>>>> >>>>>>> principles document.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Make edits!

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document

>>>> >>>>>>> (including

>>>> >>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please

>>>> >>>>>>> send an

>>>> >>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to

>>>> >>>>>>> arrange a

>>>> >>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the

>>>> >>>>>>> task,

>>>> >>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we

>>>> >>>>>>> are looking

>>>> >>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other

>>>> >>>>>>> structural

>>>> >>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like

>>>> >>>>>>> documents,

>>>> >>>>>>> forums, etc.

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>

>>>> >>

>>>

>>

>

>

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