From:   Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:56:20 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

No, I didn't know what Cesar was talking about.  I didn't know if he meant the link you sent or something else.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:46 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:
Right exactly you just don't know until cesar tells you. my point
exactly, just check it yourself

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:
> Shaista, I just didn't know whether the page you linked to was the one that
> Cesar was mentioning.  That's all.  Sorry.
> Jon
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:41 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> comments are not disabled, please limit comments so that they are not
>> repeated over and over and to give space to those who have not
>> commented,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:35 PM,  <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:
>> > Thanks for the link.  Why did they disable comments?
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/29/11, shaista husain<shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Before we begin discussing citizens and reform/revolution---it should
>> > be noted that on the NYCGA there is draft FOUR consensed on the 25th
>> > after several break out groups added much to this document. "poetic"
>> > additions etc --it is important to have a consolidated version to work
>> > with, that incorporates all the additions, so before we start arguing
>> > about single points-- (who is a citizen: political stances re
>> > reform/revolution), and forgive me throwing in a wrench---this version
>> > below is stated to be the latest--- on the NYCGA--the discrepancies
>> > and additions should not be taken lightly, these are points that have
>> > been added by groups and already consensed. If it is NOT the last
>> > version from the GA, why are we going backwards? FOR the sake of
>> > inclusion, the longer document is a product of our democratic
>> > process....
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics
>> >
>> > Shaista
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:49 PM, shaista husain
>> > <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> There are several versions of this Principles being proposed, not sure
>> >> which stage is the one being addressed, the abridged version which
>> >> doesn't include much of Marisa's excellent points!!! and there is also
>> >> a very long 4th draft, a "poetic" consolidation of additions to the
>> >> document. I am extremely confused as to the process of editing
>> >> here..the longer version is indeed very frustrating...not to elaborate
>> >> further, but several break out groups added much, so to begin with,
>> >> can you clarify exactly which document is on the floor.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Shaista
>> >>
>> >>    Engaging in direct and transparent participatory democracy;
>> >> (word citizen has been omitted--for example...)
>> >>    Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
>> >>    Recognizing individuals’ inherent privilege and the influence it
>> >> has on all interactions;
>> >>    Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
>> >>    Redefining how labor is valued;
>> >>    The sanctity of individual privacy;
>> >>    The belief that education is human right; and
>> >>    Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> I am with Marisa on a lot of things.  Marisa, can you join the
>> >>> Principles
>> >>> of
>> >>> Solidarity working group?  Please!
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes
>> >>> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I would block this document.
>> >>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>> >>>> democracy
>> >>>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."
>> >>>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.
>> >>>> We should not exclude them in this document.
>> >>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>> >>>> achieve
>> >>>> true democracy in practice
>> >>>> True democracy will never come with reforms.
>> >>>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> revolution!
>> >>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>> >>>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.
>> >>>> We should seek to liberate space.
>> >>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility
>> >>>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>> >>>> these
>> >>>> have on social interactions
>> >>>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.
>> >>>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.
>> >>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression
>> >>>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,
>> >>>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Redefining and revaluing labor
>> >>>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.
>> >>>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the
>> >>>> collective.
>> >>>> It's unclear.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>> >>>> societal
>> >>>> responsibility;
>> >>>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?
>> >>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>> >>>> source
>> >>>> principles and concepts.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ok. I'm down with open source
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar
>> >>>> frameworks.
>> >>>> In solidarity,
>> >>>> Marisa
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski
>> >>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>> strikeout and amend.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco
>> >>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be
>> >>>>>> better
>> >>>>>> if you send your comments
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> to http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or
>> >>>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> comments of everybody else.
>> >>>>>> Cesar
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski
>> >>>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please
>> >>>>>>> comment:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of
>> >>>>>>> America
>> >>>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in
>> >>>>>>> our times
>> >>>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within
>> >>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political
>> >>>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.
>> >>>>>>>  We
>> >>>>>>> spoke
>> >>>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves
>> >>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent
>> >>>>>>> civil
>> >>>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,
>> >>>>>>> acceptance,
>> >>>>>>> and love.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the
>> >>>>>>> Nation
>> >>>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> the world:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for
>> >>>>>>> action.
>> >>>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.
>> >>>>>>> Through
>> >>>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and
>> >>>>>>> crafted
>> >>>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity
>> >>>>>>> include but
>> >>>>>>> are not limited to:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>> >>>>>>> democracy;
>> >>>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>> >>>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;
>> >>>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>> >>>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
>> >>>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>> >>>>>>> these
>> >>>>>>> have on social interactions;
>> >>>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
>> >>>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;
>> >>>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;
>> >>>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>> >>>>>>> societal responsibility; and
>> >>>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>> >>>>>>> source
>> >>>>>>> principles and concepts.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic
>> >>>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> justice.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of
>> >>>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate
>> >>>>>>> these into
>> >>>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> United
>> >>>>>>> States and the wider world.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco
>> >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of
>> >>>>>>>> the Principles
>> >>>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of
>> >>>>>>>> Solidarity
>> >>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the
>> >>>>>>>> General
>> >>>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the
>> >>>>>>>> occupation.
>> >>>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each
>> >>>>>>>> consolidated
>> >>>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA
>> >>>>>>>> break out
>> >>>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September
>> >>>>>>>> 23.
>> >>>>>>>> It, along
>> >>>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.
>> >>>>>>>> This
>> >>>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:
>> >>>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.
>> >>>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are
>> >>>>>>>> moving the
>> >>>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible
>> >>>>>>>> (keeping in
>> >>>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and
>> >>>>>>>> keeps
>> >>>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity
>> >>>>>>>> originated
>> >>>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic
>> >>>>>>>> process of
>> >>>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the
>> >>>>>>>> process in
>> >>>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does
>> >>>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>>> write
>> >>>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to
>> >>>>>>>> structure a
>> >>>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the
>> >>>>>>>> same
>> >>>>>>>> principle.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks
>> >>>>>>>> recently,
>> >>>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.
>> >>>>>>>> We
>> >>>>>>>> are still
>> >>>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first
>> >>>>>>>> time
>> >>>>>>>> we are
>> >>>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.
>> >>>>>>>> We
>> >>>>>>>> welcome
>> >>>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be
>> >>>>>>>> helpful to
>> >>>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to
>> >>>>>>>> copy and
>> >>>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be
>> >>>>>>>> synthesizing these
>> >>>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)
>> >>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> next
>> >>>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are
>> >>>>>>>> also here
>> >>>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> principles document.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 1. Make edits!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document
>> >>>>>>>> (including
>> >>>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please
>> >>>>>>>> send
>> >>>>>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to
>> >>>>>>>> arrange
>> >>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the
>> >>>>>>>> task,
>> >>>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are
>> >>>>>>>> looking
>> >>>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other
>> >>>>>>>> structural
>> >>>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like
>> >>>>>>>> documents,
>> >>>>>>>> forums, etc.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>
>

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