From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:56:57 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

We are working on the SECOND DRAFT Jon, dear comrade, i am listening

to you ok...

 

"We will listen to each other with patience and respect."

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:46 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

> Right exactly you just don't know until cesar tells you. my point

> exactly, just check it yourself

>

> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Shaista, I just didn't know whether the page you linked to was the one that

>> Cesar was mentioning.  That's all.  Sorry.

>> Jon

>>

>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:41 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> comments are not disabled, please limit comments so that they are not

>>> repeated over and over and to give space to those who have not

>>> commented,

>>>

>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:35 PM,  <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:

>>> > Thanks for the link.  Why did they disable comments?

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > On 10/29/11, shaista husain<shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> > Before we begin discussing citizens and reform/revolution---it should

>>> > be noted that on the NYCGA there is draft FOUR consensed on the 25th

>>> > after several break out groups added much to this document. "poetic"

>>> > additions etc --it is important to have a consolidated version to work

>>> > with, that incorporates all the additions, so before we start arguing

>>> > about single points-- (who is a citizen: political stances re

>>> > reform/revolution), and forgive me throwing in a wrench---this version

>>> > below is stated to be the latest--- on the NYCGA--the discrepancies

>>> > and additions should not be taken lightly, these are points that have

>>> > been added by groups and already consensed. If it is NOT the last

>>> > version from the GA, why are we going backwards? FOR the sake of

>>> > inclusion, the longer document is a product of our democratic

>>> > process....

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics

>>> >

>>> > Shaista

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:49 PM, shaista husain

>>> > <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>> > wrote:

>>> >> There are several versions of this Principles being proposed, not sure

>>> >> which stage is the one being addressed, the abridged version which

>>> >> doesn't include much of Marisa's excellent points!!! and there is also

>>> >> a very long 4th draft, a "poetic" consolidation of additions to the

>>> >> document. I am extremely confused as to the process of editing

>>> >> here..the longer version is indeed very frustrating...not to elaborate

>>> >> further, but several break out groups added much, so to begin with,

>>> >> can you clarify exactly which document is on the floor.

>>> >> Thanks,

>>> >> Shaista

>>> >>

>>> >>    Engaging in direct and transparent participatory democracy;

>>> >> (word citizen has been omitted--for example...)

>>> >>    Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>> >>    Recognizing individuals’ inherent privilege and the influence it

>>> >> has on all interactions;

>>> >>    Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>> >>    Redefining how labor is valued;

>>> >>    The sanctity of individual privacy;

>>> >>    The belief that education is human right; and

>>> >>    Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source.

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com>

>>> >> wrote:

>>> >>> I am with Marisa on a lot of things.  Marisa, can you join the

>>> >>> Principles

>>> >>> of

>>> >>> Solidarity working group?  Please!

>>> >>>

>>> >>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes

>>> >>> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>

>>> >>> wrote:

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> I would block this document.

>>> >>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>> >>>> democracy

>>> >>>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."

>>> >>>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.

>>> >>>> We should not exclude them in this document.

>>> >>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>> >>>> achieve

>>> >>>> true democracy in practice

>>> >>>> True democracy will never come with reforms.

>>> >>>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it

>>> >>>> for

>>> >>>> revolution!

>>> >>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>> >>>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.

>>> >>>> We should seek to liberate space.

>>> >>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility

>>> >>>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>> >>>> these

>>> >>>> have on social interactions

>>> >>>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.

>>> >>>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.

>>> >>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression

>>> >>>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,

>>> >>>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Redefining and revaluing labor

>>> >>>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.

>>> >>>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the

>>> >>>> collective.

>>> >>>> It's unclear.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>> >>>> societal

>>> >>>> responsibility;

>>> >>>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?

>>> >>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>> >>>> source

>>> >>>> principles and concepts.

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Ok. I'm down with open source

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar

>>> >>>> frameworks.

>>> >>>> In solidarity,

>>> >>>> Marisa

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski

>>> >>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>> >>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked

>>> >>>>> with

>>> >>>>> strikeout and amend.

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco

>>> >>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>> >>>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be

>>> >>>>>> better

>>> >>>>>> if you send your comments

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> to http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or

>>> >>>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts

>>> >>>>>> and

>>> >>>>>> comments of everybody else.

>>> >>>>>> Cesar

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski

>>> >>>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>> >>>>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please

>>> >>>>>>> comment:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of

>>> >>>>>>> America

>>> >>>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in

>>> >>>>>>> our times

>>> >>>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within

>>> >>>>>>> a

>>> >>>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political

>>> >>>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.

>>> >>>>>>>  We

>>> >>>>>>> spoke

>>> >>>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves

>>> >>>>>>> as

>>> >>>>>>> a

>>> >>>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent

>>> >>>>>>> civil

>>> >>>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,

>>> >>>>>>> acceptance,

>>> >>>>>>> and love.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the

>>> >>>>>>> Nation

>>> >>>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans

>>> >>>>>>> and

>>> >>>>>>> to

>>> >>>>>>> the world:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for

>>> >>>>>>> action.

>>> >>>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.

>>> >>>>>>> Through

>>> >>>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and

>>> >>>>>>> crafted

>>> >>>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity

>>> >>>>>>> include but

>>> >>>>>>> are not limited to:

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>> >>>>>>> democracy;

>>> >>>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>> >>>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;

>>> >>>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>> >>>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>> >>>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>> >>>>>>> these

>>> >>>>>>> have on social interactions;

>>> >>>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>> >>>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;

>>> >>>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;

>>> >>>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>> >>>>>>> societal responsibility; and

>>> >>>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>> >>>>>>> source

>>> >>>>>>> principles and concepts.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic

>>> >>>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality

>>> >>>>>>> and

>>> >>>>>>> justice.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of

>>> >>>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate

>>> >>>>>>> these into

>>> >>>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in

>>> >>>>>>> the

>>> >>>>>>> United

>>> >>>>>>> States and the wider world.

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco

>>> >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>> >>>>>>> wrote:

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of

>>> >>>>>>>> the Principles

>>> >>>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of

>>> >>>>>>>> Solidarity

>>> >>>>>>>> of

>>> >>>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the

>>> >>>>>>>> General

>>> >>>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the

>>> >>>>>>>> occupation.

>>> >>>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each

>>> >>>>>>>> consolidated

>>> >>>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA

>>> >>>>>>>> break out

>>> >>>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September

>>> >>>>>>>> 23.

>>> >>>>>>>> It, along

>>> >>>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.

>>> >>>>>>>> This

>>> >>>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:

>>> >>>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.

>>> >>>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,

>>> >>>>>>>> is

>>> >>>>>>>> not

>>> >>>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are

>>> >>>>>>>> moving the

>>> >>>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible

>>> >>>>>>>> (keeping in

>>> >>>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and

>>> >>>>>>>> keeps

>>> >>>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity

>>> >>>>>>>> originated

>>> >>>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic

>>> >>>>>>>> process of

>>> >>>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the

>>> >>>>>>>> process in

>>> >>>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does

>>> >>>>>>>> not

>>> >>>>>>>> write

>>> >>>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to

>>> >>>>>>>> structure a

>>> >>>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the

>>> >>>>>>>> same

>>> >>>>>>>> principle.

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks

>>> >>>>>>>> recently,

>>> >>>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.

>>> >>>>>>>> We

>>> >>>>>>>> are still

>>> >>>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first

>>> >>>>>>>> time

>>> >>>>>>>> we are

>>> >>>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.

>>> >>>>>>>> We

>>> >>>>>>>> welcome

>>> >>>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be

>>> >>>>>>>> helpful to

>>> >>>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to

>>> >>>>>>>> copy and

>>> >>>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be

>>> >>>>>>>> synthesizing these

>>> >>>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)

>>> >>>>>>>> and

>>> >>>>>>>> will

>>> >>>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in

>>> >>>>>>>> the

>>> >>>>>>>> next

>>> >>>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are

>>> >>>>>>>> also here

>>> >>>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to

>>> >>>>>>>> the

>>> >>>>>>>> principles document.

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Make edits!

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document

>>> >>>>>>>> (including

>>> >>>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)

>>> >>>>>>>>

>>> >>>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please

>>> >>>>>>>> send

>>> >>>>>>>> an

>>> >>>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to

>>> >>>>>>>> arrange

>>> >>>>>>>> a

>>> >>>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the

>>> >>>>>>>> task,

>>> >>>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are

>>> >>>>>>>> looking

>>> >>>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other

>>> >>>>>>>> structural

>>> >>>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like

>>> >>>>>>>> documents,

>>> >>>>>>>> forums, etc.

>>> >>>>>>

>>> >>>>>

>>> >>>>

>>> >>>

>>> >>>

>>> >>

>>> >

>>

>>

>

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