From:   shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:58:16 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics

 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:56 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are working on the SECOND DRAFT Jon, dear comrade, i am listening

> to you ok...

>

> "We will listen to each other with patience and respect."

>

>

>

> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:46 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Right exactly you just don't know until cesar tells you. my point

>> exactly, just check it yourself

>>

>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Shaista, I just didn't know whether the page you linked to was the one that

>>> Cesar was mentioning.  That's all.  Sorry.

>>> Jon

>>>

>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:41 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> comments are not disabled, please limit comments so that they are not

>>>> repeated over and over and to give space to those who have not

>>>> commented,

>>>>

>>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:35 PM,  <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:

>>>> > Thanks for the link.  Why did they disable comments?

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > On 10/29/11, shaista husain<shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> > Before we begin discussing citizens and reform/revolution---it should

>>>> > be noted that on the NYCGA there is draft FOUR consensed on the 25th

>>>> > after several break out groups added much to this document. "poetic"

>>>> > additions etc --it is important to have a consolidated version to work

>>>> > with, that incorporates all the additions, so before we start arguing

>>>> > about single points-- (who is a citizen: political stances re

>>>> > reform/revolution), and forgive me throwing in a wrench---this version

>>>> > below is stated to be the latest--- on the NYCGA--the discrepancies

>>>> > and additions should not be taken lightly, these are points that have

>>>> > been added by groups and already consensed. If it is NOT the last

>>>> > version from the GA, why are we going backwards? FOR the sake of

>>>> > inclusion, the longer document is a product of our democratic

>>>> > process....

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics

>>>> >

>>>> > Shaista

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:49 PM, shaista husain

>>>> > <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>>> > wrote:

>>>> >> There are several versions of this Principles being proposed, not sure

>>>> >> which stage is the one being addressed, the abridged version which

>>>> >> doesn't include much of Marisa's excellent points!!! and there is also

>>>> >> a very long 4th draft, a "poetic" consolidation of additions to the

>>>> >> document. I am extremely confused as to the process of editing

>>>> >> here..the longer version is indeed very frustrating...not to elaborate

>>>> >> further, but several break out groups added much, so to begin with,

>>>> >> can you clarify exactly which document is on the floor.

>>>> >> Thanks,

>>>> >> Shaista

>>>> >>

>>>> >>    Engaging in direct and transparent participatory democracy;

>>>> >> (word citizen has been omitted--for example...)

>>>> >>    Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>>> >>    Recognizing individuals’ inherent privilege and the influence it

>>>> >> has on all interactions;

>>>> >>    Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>>> >>    Redefining how labor is valued;

>>>> >>    The sanctity of individual privacy;

>>>> >>    The belief that education is human right; and

>>>> >>    Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source.

>>>> >>

>>>> >>

>>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Amin Husain <amin.husain@gmail.com>

>>>> >> wrote:

>>>> >>> I am with Marisa on a lot of things.  Marisa, can you join the

>>>> >>> Principles

>>>> >>> of

>>>> >>> Solidarity working group?  Please!

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes

>>>> >>> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>

>>>> >>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> I would block this document.

>>>> >>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>>> >>>> democracy

>>>> >>>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."

>>>> >>>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.

>>>> >>>> We should not exclude them in this document.

>>>> >>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>>> >>>> achieve

>>>> >>>> true democracy in practice

>>>> >>>> True democracy will never come with reforms.

>>>> >>>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it

>>>> >>>> for

>>>> >>>> revolution!

>>>> >>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>>> >>>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.

>>>> >>>> We should seek to liberate space.

>>>> >>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility

>>>> >>>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>>> >>>> these

>>>> >>>> have on social interactions

>>>> >>>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.

>>>> >>>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.

>>>> >>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression

>>>> >>>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,

>>>> >>>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Redefining and revaluing labor

>>>> >>>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.

>>>> >>>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the

>>>> >>>> collective.

>>>> >>>> It's unclear.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>>> >>>> societal

>>>> >>>> responsibility;

>>>> >>>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?

>>>> >>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>>> >>>> source

>>>> >>>> principles and concepts.

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Ok. I'm down with open source

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar

>>>> >>>> frameworks.

>>>> >>>> In solidarity,

>>>> >>>> Marisa

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski

>>>> >>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked

>>>> >>>>> with

>>>> >>>>> strikeout and amend.

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco

>>>> >>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be

>>>> >>>>>> better

>>>> >>>>>> if you send your comments

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> to http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or

>>>> >>>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts

>>>> >>>>>> and

>>>> >>>>>> comments of everybody else.

>>>> >>>>>> Cesar

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski

>>>> >>>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please

>>>> >>>>>>> comment:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of

>>>> >>>>>>> America

>>>> >>>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in

>>>> >>>>>>> our times

>>>> >>>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within

>>>> >>>>>>> a

>>>> >>>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political

>>>> >>>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.

>>>> >>>>>>>  We

>>>> >>>>>>> spoke

>>>> >>>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves

>>>> >>>>>>> as

>>>> >>>>>>> a

>>>> >>>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent

>>>> >>>>>>> civil

>>>> >>>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,

>>>> >>>>>>> acceptance,

>>>> >>>>>>> and love.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the

>>>> >>>>>>> Nation

>>>> >>>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans

>>>> >>>>>>> and

>>>> >>>>>>> to

>>>> >>>>>>> the world:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for

>>>> >>>>>>> action.

>>>> >>>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.

>>>> >>>>>>> Through

>>>> >>>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and

>>>> >>>>>>> crafted

>>>> >>>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity

>>>> >>>>>>> include but

>>>> >>>>>>> are not limited to:

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory

>>>> >>>>>>> democracy;

>>>> >>>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to

>>>> >>>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;

>>>> >>>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;

>>>> >>>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;

>>>> >>>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence

>>>> >>>>>>> these

>>>> >>>>>>> have on social interactions;

>>>> >>>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;

>>>> >>>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;

>>>> >>>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;

>>>> >>>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a

>>>> >>>>>>> societal responsibility; and

>>>> >>>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open

>>>> >>>>>>> source

>>>> >>>>>>> principles and concepts.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic

>>>> >>>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality

>>>> >>>>>>> and

>>>> >>>>>>> justice.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of

>>>> >>>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate

>>>> >>>>>>> these into

>>>> >>>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in

>>>> >>>>>>> the

>>>> >>>>>>> United

>>>> >>>>>>> States and the wider world.

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco

>>>> >>>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>>>> >>>>>>> wrote:

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of

>>>> >>>>>>>> the Principles

>>>> >>>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of

>>>> >>>>>>>> Solidarity

>>>> >>>>>>>> of

>>>> >>>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the

>>>> >>>>>>>> General

>>>> >>>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the

>>>> >>>>>>>> occupation.

>>>> >>>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each

>>>> >>>>>>>> consolidated

>>>> >>>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA

>>>> >>>>>>>> break out

>>>> >>>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September

>>>> >>>>>>>> 23.

>>>> >>>>>>>> It, along

>>>> >>>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.

>>>> >>>>>>>> This

>>>> >>>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:

>>>> >>>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.

>>>> >>>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,

>>>> >>>>>>>> is

>>>> >>>>>>>> not

>>>> >>>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are

>>>> >>>>>>>> moving the

>>>> >>>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible

>>>> >>>>>>>> (keeping in

>>>> >>>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and

>>>> >>>>>>>> keeps

>>>> >>>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity

>>>> >>>>>>>> originated

>>>> >>>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic

>>>> >>>>>>>> process of

>>>> >>>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the

>>>> >>>>>>>> process in

>>>> >>>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does

>>>> >>>>>>>> not

>>>> >>>>>>>> write

>>>> >>>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to

>>>> >>>>>>>> structure a

>>>> >>>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the

>>>> >>>>>>>> same

>>>> >>>>>>>> principle.

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks

>>>> >>>>>>>> recently,

>>>> >>>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.

>>>> >>>>>>>> We

>>>> >>>>>>>> are still

>>>> >>>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first

>>>> >>>>>>>> time

>>>> >>>>>>>> we are

>>>> >>>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.

>>>> >>>>>>>> We

>>>> >>>>>>>> welcome

>>>> >>>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be

>>>> >>>>>>>> helpful to

>>>> >>>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to

>>>> >>>>>>>> copy and

>>>> >>>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be

>>>> >>>>>>>> synthesizing these

>>>> >>>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)

>>>> >>>>>>>> and

>>>> >>>>>>>> will

>>>> >>>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in

>>>> >>>>>>>> the

>>>> >>>>>>>> next

>>>> >>>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are

>>>> >>>>>>>> also here

>>>> >>>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to

>>>> >>>>>>>> the

>>>> >>>>>>>> principles document.

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Make edits!

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document

>>>> >>>>>>>> (including

>>>> >>>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)

>>>> >>>>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please

>>>> >>>>>>>> send

>>>> >>>>>>>> an

>>>> >>>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to

>>>> >>>>>>>> arrange

>>>> >>>>>>>> a

>>>> >>>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the

>>>> >>>>>>>> task,

>>>> >>>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are

>>>> >>>>>>>> looking

>>>> >>>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other

>>>> >>>>>>>> structural

>>>> >>>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like

>>>> >>>>>>>> documents,

>>>> >>>>>>>> forums, etc.

>>>> >>>>>>

>>>> >>>>>

>>>> >>>>

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>

>>>> >

>>>

>>>

>>

>

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