From:   jemcgloin@verizon.net
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:58:38 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

Ok why are there so many different pages for this document?  Which one is the latest? and where is the forum conversation taking place?

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-2-a-different-voicestructural-approach

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics
 
 
 
On 10/29/11, shaista husain<shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:
Do men just talk to each other here? Not to be rude, but i sometimes
wonder why this is the case.
The latest document, as i mentioned three times is
http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-2-a-different-voicestructural-approach

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm confused - is the whole discussion moving to another forum - or simply
> discussions of particular solidarity points?
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Link, please?
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> EXACTLY let's move to the same WEB page. The GA group mentioned a few
>>> threads before
>>> Cesar
>>>
>>> Sent from phone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:39 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Cesar, the Principles of Solidarity--is going to erupt heated
>>> > debates--needed ones--and welcome all contributions--and diverse
>>> > viewpoints--and should be encouraged in a manner that in inclusive
>>> > BUT can we all be on the same PAGE...
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> I agree that the "individual" one ought to be paired with a "societal"
>>> >> one -
>>> >> to emphasize the "I" and the "We" role of (I hate to use it again -
>>> >> but
>>> >> please recognize my use of it versus the excluding concept) of
>>> >> citizens in a
>>> >> democracy.  And how the two are inherently intertwined (actually are
>>> >> one)
>>> >> and interdependent (one cannot exist or flourish without the other).
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes
>>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I would block this document.
>>> >>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>>> >>> democracy
>>> >>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."
>>> >>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.
>>> >>> We should not exclude them in this document.
>>> >>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>>> >>> achieve
>>> >>> true democracy in practice
>>> >>> True democracy will never come with reforms.
>>> >>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> revolution!
>>> >>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>> >>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.
>>> >>> We should seek to liberate space.
>>> >>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility
>>> >>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>>> >>> these
>>> >>> have on social interactions
>>> >>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.
>>> >>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.
>>> >>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression
>>> >>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,
>>> >>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Redefining and revaluing labor
>>> >>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.
>>> >>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the
>>> >>> collective.
>>> >>> It's unclear.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>>> >>> societal
>>> >>> responsibility;
>>> >>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?
>>> >>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>>> >>> source
>>> >>> principles and concepts.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ok. I'm down with open source
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar
>>> >>> frameworks.
>>> >>> In solidarity,
>>> >>> Marisa
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski
>>> >>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked
>>> >>>> with
>>> >>>> strikeout and amend.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco
>>> >>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be
>>> >>>>> better
>>> >>>>> if you send your comments
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or
>>> >>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> comments of everybody else.
>>> >>>>> Cesar
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski
>>> >>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please
>>> >>>>>> comment:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of
>>> >>>>>> America
>>> >>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in
>>> >>>>>> our times
>>> >>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within
>>> >>>>>> a
>>> >>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political
>>> >>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.
>>> >>>>>>  We spoke
>>> >>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves
>>> >>>>>> as a
>>> >>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent
>>> >>>>>> civil
>>> >>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,
>>> >>>>>> acceptance,
>>> >>>>>> and love.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the
>>> >>>>>> Nation
>>> >>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans
>>> >>>>>> and to
>>> >>>>>> the world:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for
>>> >>>>>> action.
>>> >>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.
>>> >>>>>> Through
>>> >>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and
>>> >>>>>> crafted
>>> >>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity
>>> >>>>>> include but
>>> >>>>>> are not limited to:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>>> >>>>>> democracy;
>>> >>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>>> >>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;
>>> >>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>> >>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
>>> >>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>>> >>>>>> these
>>> >>>>>> have on social interactions;
>>> >>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
>>> >>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;
>>> >>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;
>>> >>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>>> >>>>>> societal responsibility; and
>>> >>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>>> >>>>>> source
>>> >>>>>> principles and concepts.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic
>>> >>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality
>>> >>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>> justice.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of
>>> >>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate
>>> >>>>>> these into
>>> >>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in
>>> >>>>>> the United
>>> >>>>>> States and the wider world.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco
>>> >>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of the
>>> >>>>>>> Principles
>>> >>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of
>>> >>>>>>> Solidarity of
>>> >>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the
>>> >>>>>>> General
>>> >>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the
>>> >>>>>>> occupation.
>>> >>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each
>>> >>>>>>> consolidated
>>> >>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA
>>> >>>>>>> break out
>>> >>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September
>>> >>>>>>> 23. It, along
>>> >>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.
>>> >>>>>>> This
>>> >>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:
>>> >>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.
>>> >>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,
>>> >>>>>>> is not
>>> >>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are
>>> >>>>>>> moving the
>>> >>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible
>>> >>>>>>> (keeping in
>>> >>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and
>>> >>>>>>> keeps
>>> >>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity
>>> >>>>>>> originated
>>> >>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic
>>> >>>>>>> process of
>>> >>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the
>>> >>>>>>> process in
>>> >>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does
>>> >>>>>>> not write
>>> >>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to
>>> >>>>>>> structure a
>>> >>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the
>>> >>>>>>> same
>>> >>>>>>> principle.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks
>>> >>>>>>> recently,
>>> >>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.
>>> >>>>>>> We are still
>>> >>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first
>>> >>>>>>> time we are
>>> >>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.
>>> >>>>>>> We welcome
>>> >>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be
>>> >>>>>>> helpful to
>>> >>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to
>>> >>>>>>> copy and
>>> >>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be
>>> >>>>>>> synthesizing these
>>> >>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)
>>> >>>>>>> and will
>>> >>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in
>>> >>>>>>> the next
>>> >>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are
>>> >>>>>>> also here
>>> >>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to
>>> >>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> principles document.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 1. Make edits!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document
>>> >>>>>>> (including
>>> >>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please
>>> >>>>>>> send an
>>> >>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to
>>> >>>>>>> arrange a
>>> >>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the
>>> >>>>>>> task,
>>> >>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are
>>> >>>>>>> looking
>>> >>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other
>>> >>>>>>> structural
>>> >>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like
>>> >>>>>>> documents,
>>> >>>>>>> forums, etc.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>
>
>
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