From:   Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:59:50 PM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
 

Thank you, Shaista.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:58 PM, <jemcgloin@verizon.net> wrote:
Ok why are there so many different pages for this document?  Which one is the latest? and where is the forum conversation taking place?

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-2-a-different-voicestructural-approach

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/

http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-expanded-version-of-draft-3-which-reached-ga-consensus-on-923-and-additional-poetics
 
 
 
On 10/29/11, shaista husain<shaistahusain@gmail.com> wrote:
Do men just talk to each other here? Not to be rude, but i sometimes
wonder why this is the case.
The latest document, as i mentioned three times is
http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/docs/principles-of-solidarity-draft-4-2-a-different-voicestructural-approach

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm confused - is the whole discussion moving to another forum - or simply
> discussions of particular solidarity points?
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Link, please?
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Cesar <wintersiroco@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> EXACTLY let's move to the same WEB page. The GA group mentioned a few
>>> threads before
>>> Cesar
>>>
>>> Sent from phone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:39 PM, shaista husain <shaistahusain@gmail.com>

>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Cesar, the Principles of Solidarity--is going to erupt heated
>>> > debates--needed ones--and welcome all contributions--and diverse
>>> > viewpoints--and should be encouraged in a manner that in inclusive
>>> > BUT can we all be on the same PAGE...
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Charlie Grapski <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> I agree that the "individual" one ought to be paired with a "societal"
>>> >> one -
>>> >> to emphasize the "I" and the "We" role of (I hate to use it again -
>>> >> but
>>> >> please recognize my use of it versus the excluding concept) of
>>> >> citizens in a
>>> >> democracy.  And how the two are inherently intertwined (actually are
>>> >> one)
>>> >> and interdependent (one cannot exist or flourish without the other).
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Marisa Holmes
>>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I would block this document.
>>> >>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>>> >>> democracy
>>> >>> We should engage people or human beings not "citizens."
>>> >>> Think of all the non-citizens living in this country.
>>> >>> We should not exclude them in this document.
>>> >>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>>> >>> achieve
>>> >>> true democracy in practice
>>> >>> True democracy will never come with reforms.
>>> >>> Many of us on this list and in the greater occupy movement are in it
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> revolution!
>>> >>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>> >>> The notion of a public sphere as defined by Habermas is bourgeois.
>>> >>> We should seek to liberate space.
>>> >>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility
>>> >>> Ok. This is general enough that I can't be opposed to it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>>> >>> these
>>> >>> have on social interactions
>>> >>> Liberty goes beyond the framework of rights.
>>> >>> We should assume freedom not ask for it or seek to own it.
>>> >>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression
>>> >>> I'm all for taking on oppression, but the wording of this awkward,
>>> >>> and I'd run it by the POC Caucus.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Redefining and revaluing labor
>>> >>> This is unclear, but I'm intrigued.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy.
>>> >>> There is too much emphasis here on the individual and not the
>>> >>> collective.
>>> >>> It's unclear.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>>> >>> societal
>>> >>> responsibility;
>>> >>> What kind of education? Who is doing the educating?
>>> >>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>>> >>> source
>>> >>> principles and concepts.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ok. I'm down with open source
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Let's not loose sight of our utopian visions in favor of familiar
>>> >>> frameworks.
>>> >>> In solidarity,
>>> >>> Marisa
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Charlie Grapski
>>> >>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I have signed up.  Here is a PDF with the revisions clearly marked
>>> >>>> with
>>> >>>> strikeout and amend.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco
>>> >>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be
>>> >>>>> better
>>> >>>>> if you send your comments
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/ and/or
>>> >>>>> if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> comments of everybody else.
>>> >>>>> Cesar
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski
>>> >>>>> <cjgrapski@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please
>>> >>>>>> comment:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On September 17, 2011, people from across the United States of
>>> >>>>>> America
>>> >>>>>> and the world joined together to protest the injustices blatant in
>>> >>>>>> our times
>>> >>>>>> that are being perpetuated by economic and political elites within
>>> >>>>>> a
>>> >>>>>> corrupted social, political, and economic system.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> As individuals we rose up against systematic political
>>> >>>>>> disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice.
>>> >>>>>>  We spoke
>>> >>>>>> out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves
>>> >>>>>> as a
>>> >>>>>> community of autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent
>>> >>>>>> civil
>>> >>>>>> disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect,
>>> >>>>>> acceptance,
>>> >>>>>> and love.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We have been joined in these efforts by Occupations across the
>>> >>>>>> Nation
>>> >>>>>> and the globe in a Movement that continues to grow.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans
>>> >>>>>> and to
>>> >>>>>> the world:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Enough!  How many crises does it take?  The time has come for
>>> >>>>>> action.
>>> >>>>>> We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future.
>>> >>>>>> Through
>>> >>>>>> direct democratic process we have come together as individuals and
>>> >>>>>> crafted
>>> >>>>>> the following principles of solidarity.  These points of unity
>>> >>>>>> include but
>>> >>>>>> are not limited to:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory
>>> >>>>>> democracy;
>>> >>>>>> Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to
>>> >>>>>> achieve true democracy in practice;
>>> >>>>>> Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
>>> >>>>>> Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
>>> >>>>>> Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence
>>> >>>>>> these
>>> >>>>>> have on social interactions;
>>> >>>>>> Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
>>> >>>>>> Redefining and revaluing labor;
>>> >>>>>> Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;
>>> >>>>>> Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a
>>> >>>>>> societal responsibility; and
>>> >>>>>> Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open
>>> >>>>>> source
>>> >>>>>> principles and concepts.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We dare to imagine an alternative social, political, and economic
>>> >>>>>> system that offers and ensures greater possibilities of equality
>>> >>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>> justice.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> We will continue to formulate and consolidate the principles of
>>> >>>>>> solidarity which unite us and will seek in due time to translate
>>> >>>>>> these into
>>> >>>>>> viable and practical solutions to the current ills of society in
>>> >>>>>> the United
>>> >>>>>> States and the wider world.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco
>>> >>>>>> <wintersiroco@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> There is a new working group for the consolidation of the
>>> >>>>>>> Principles
>>> >>>>>>> of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nycga.net/groups/principles-of-solidarity-consolidation/
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of
>>> >>>>>>> Solidarity of
>>> >>>>>>> the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the
>>> >>>>>>> General
>>> >>>>>>> Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the
>>> >>>>>>> occupation.
>>> >>>>>>> There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each
>>> >>>>>>> consolidated
>>> >>>>>>> draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA
>>> >>>>>>> break out
>>> >>>>>>> groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September
>>> >>>>>>> 23. It, along
>>> >>>>>>> with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus.
>>> >>>>>>> This
>>> >>>>>>> (working) draft is online at:
>>> >>>>>>> nycga.net/resources/principles-of-solidarity.
>>> >>>>>>> We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however,
>>> >>>>>>> is not
>>> >>>>>>> complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are
>>> >>>>>>> moving the
>>> >>>>>>> fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible
>>> >>>>>>> (keeping in
>>> >>>>>>> mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and
>>> >>>>>>> keeps
>>> >>>>>>> in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity
>>> >>>>>>> originated
>>> >>>>>>> here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic
>>> >>>>>>> process of
>>> >>>>>>> the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the
>>> >>>>>>> process in
>>> >>>>>>> which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does
>>> >>>>>>> not write
>>> >>>>>>> the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to
>>> >>>>>>> structure a
>>> >>>>>>> bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the
>>> >>>>>>> same
>>> >>>>>>> principle.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The members of this group have been busy with other tasks
>>> >>>>>>> recently,
>>> >>>>>>> but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along.
>>> >>>>>>> We are still
>>> >>>>>>> working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first
>>> >>>>>>> time we are
>>> >>>>>>> putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus.
>>> >>>>>>> We welcome
>>> >>>>>>> your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be
>>> >>>>>>> helpful to
>>> >>>>>>> include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to
>>> >>>>>>> copy and
>>> >>>>>>> paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be
>>> >>>>>>> synthesizing these
>>> >>>>>>> principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group)
>>> >>>>>>> and will
>>> >>>>>>> hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in
>>> >>>>>>> the next
>>> >>>>>>> week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are
>>> >>>>>>> also here
>>> >>>>>>> for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to
>>> >>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> principles document.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> HOW TO GET INVOLVED:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 1. Make edits!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document
>>> >>>>>>> (including
>>> >>>>>>> structure, voice, tone, etc.)
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please
>>> >>>>>>> send an
>>> >>>>>>> email to:principlesofsolidarity@gmail.com. We are trying to
>>> >>>>>>> arrange a
>>> >>>>>>> meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the
>>> >>>>>>> task,
>>> >>>>>>> consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are
>>> >>>>>>> looking
>>> >>>>>>> for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other
>>> >>>>>>> structural
>>> >>>>>>> approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like
>>> >>>>>>> documents,
>>> >>>>>>> forums, etc.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>
>
>

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