Sent time:   Saturday, October 29, 2011 2:03:07 PM
Subject:   Re: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

Yes you are correct, and the NYCGA can also use it to project the things that we think are important.  I don't mind if everyone else co-opts the movement, but we should be co-opting it too.
On 10/29/11, rob hollander<> wrote:
Also remember that people already know what the movement is about.

And while a lot of those people are down with the movement, they also know that a lot of the people in Zuccotti Park are very young that they don't entirely trust, and that there are a lot of ideologues there that they don't agree with and a lot of revolutionaries that would scare away most of the 99% (since most people think, with justification, that revolutions are typically destabilizing, chaotic, deadly violent and fail to result in improvement and often lead to worse conditions -- as distinct from wars of independence which are often qualified successes, like the American one, India etc.).
You wrote
>>They want to know that they are joining a fight that they believe in.<<
Well, occupations have spread all over the world with a minimum of specifics. So the question is, who is not joining because they are waiting for more specifics. Well, what you suggest cuts both ways. Once you specify you will lose those groups and individuals that can't subscribe to your specific demand. If they were waiting, they were waiting for something beyond the general voice of the movement that drew all the others.

I think that's a scenario that doesn't make any sense: right now people and groups and public figures are all ready to ride on the OWS wagon, because they can define it to their purpose. They are not waiting -- they are taking advantage of it for themselves. Right now, that's good. That's what a social movement does. The Dems will use it to justify their reforms, the revolutionaries will use it to recruit the revolution, the internationalists will use it to promote liberation across the globe, the anti-racism activists will use it, environmentalists will use it. it's happening already. 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:06 PM, <> wrote:
You have to remember that some people are wary of being used by an organization that won't say what it believes in.  They want to know that they are joining a fight that they believe in.  It is not inappropriate for the GA which is not the movement, but only one part of the movement, to communicate with the world and the other occupations.  Together the movement will come to some collective understanding, and we need communication to move that forward. 
On 10/28/11, rob hollander<> wrote:
You have a social movement -- an action with people filling it with their action. Much of this statement strikes me as an unnecessary proclamation of what is already visible in action.

Issuing proclamations strikes me as premature. That doesn't bother me. Early proclamations will be ignored as the social movement spreads with its own momentum: the movement will be defined by its participants and its own momentum's directions, not proclamations.

Premature proclamations also strike me as immature. That worries me because it characterizes the movement as immature.

So, why is there a desperate need to proclaim anything about OWS? Actions speak louder than words. OWS is an action. It's a loud action. It's been heard around the world. Words seem comical and absurd by compare.

Why shouldn't occupiers form interest/issue groups to find their own means to speak for themselves? Why this obsession with turning OWS from a movement into an organization?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:11 AM, gail zawacki <> wrote:
I looked at the doc.  How about structuring it somehow - numbering the bullet points to make it easier to refer to individual issues?

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Winter Siroco <> wrote:
Charlie, It is hard to find where the differences are, it may be better if you send your comments to and/or if you join the working group that will consolidate the thoughts and comments of everybody else.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Charlie Grapski <> wrote:
I have made, offered, and sent the following revisions.  Please comment:

On September 17, 2011, people from acrossthe United States of America and the world joined together to protest theinjustices blatant in our times that are being perpetuated by economic andpolitical elites within a corrupted social, political, and economic system. 


As individuals we rose up against systematicpolitical disenfranchisement and widespread social and economic injustice. We spoke out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street.  


Today, we proudly remain in LibertySquare constituting ourselves as a community of autonomous political beingsengaged in non-violent civil disobedience and building solidarity based onmutual respect, acceptance, and love.  


We have been joined in these effortsby Occupations across the Nation and the globe in a Movement that continues togrow.


It is from these reclaimed groundsthat we say to all Americans and to the world:


Enough!  How many crises doesit take?  The time has come for action. We are the 99% and we are acting to reclaim our mortgaged future. Throughdirect democratic process we have come together as individuals and crafted thefollowing principles of solidarity.  These points of unity include but are notlimited to:

  • Engaging as citizens in direct and transparent participatory democracy;
  • Reforming our social and political institutions and processes to achieve true democracy in practice;
  • Re-establishing a viable political public sphere;
  • Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
  • Recognizing the inherent rights of individuals and the influence these have on social interactions;
  • Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
  • Redefining and revaluing labor;
  • Respecting the sanctity of individual privacy;
  • Establishing the principle that education is a human right and a societal responsibility; and
  • Endeavoring to practice and support the wide application of open source principles and concepts.

We dare to imagine an alternative social,political, and economic system that offers and ensures greater possibilities ofequality and justice.  

We will continue to formulate andconsolidate the principles of solidarity which unite us and will seek in duetime to translate these into viable and practical solutions to the current illsof society in the United States and the wider world.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Winter Siroco <> wrote:
There is a new working group for the consolidation of the Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation

We are synthesizing and consolidating the Principles of Solidarity of the Wall Street Occupation. These principles were drafted in the General Assembly break out groups during the first days and weeks of the occupation. There have been three drafts of this document thus far; each consolidated draft was returned to the General Assembly and again edited by GA break out groups. The last draft (#3) passed with consensus on September 23. It, along with the Declaration, are the only documents with GA consensus. This (working) draft is online at: We will be posting it here as well. This working draft, however, is not complete (it passed with consensus as a working draft), we are moving the fourth draft along and we aim for consensus as soon as possible (keeping in mind that Principles of Solidarity is a living document).

The principles document aims to be as inclusive as possible and keeps in mind the realistic parameters, i.,e. principles of solidarity originated here in the square and was drafted by using the direct democratic process of the GA. It is important for this document to remain true to the process in which it was created. To be clear, the Consolidation group does not write the principles of the occupation, we only figure out how to structure a bullet point or sentence that includes everyone’s input abut the same principle.

The members of this group have been busy with other tasks recently, but we are giving our best efforts to move this document along. We are still working on the fourth (and complete) draft. This is the first time we are putting working drafts online that have yet to gain GA consensus. We welcome your edits, suggestions, and thoughts. It would especially be helpful to include what you are responding to directly (one idea would be to copy and paste the line or principle you are editing). We will be synthesizing these principles next week (possibly after another GA break out group) and will hopefully bring it to the GA for consensus on the full draft in the next week or two (this may be an unrealistic goal…). The documents are also here for transparency, accessibility, and to familiarize new comers to the principles document.


1. Make edits!

2. Leave Comments and/or suggestions about the document (including structure, voice, tone, etc.)

2. If you’re interested in synthesizing the principles please send an email We are trying to arrange a meeting for next week. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the task, consolidation operates best with just a handful of people (we are looking for available people!), however, our meetings will discuss other structural approaches to the document, the future of solidarity and like documents, forums, etc.

Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009

Rob Hollander
Lower East Side Residents for Responsible Development
622 E 11, #10
NYC, 10009