From:   Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:38:54 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Rumor to be confirmed - NYPD
 

you don't have to be a union to have demands. (what an absurd idea!) the civil rights movement, feminist movement, gay liberation movement, all had demands.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com> wrote:
We are not a union in the collective bargaining sense.
This isn't just about grievances.
Its about alternatives.

Marisa

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:32 PM, NicolasMoselleAllen
<allenicolas@gmail.com> wrote:
> +million, yes.
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK, Marisa and I were both on KPFK's "Uprising Radio" this morning. And
>> Marisa can attest that the host was sympathetic but very critical that there
>> was no simple demand. People are losing interest because they cannot
>> understand WHY to occupywallstreet.
>>
>> Our power comes from the assembly when the assembly shows the world that the
>> assembly can decide on demands. If the assembly is the model for democracy,
>> then the assembly must be able to set demands.
>>
>> Can a people's assembly decide on a list of demands or not? If the people's
>> assembly is unable to decide on a list of demands, then that is tantamount
>> to saying it is unable to provide a concrete vision of how to proceed that
>> will inspire the nation.
>>
>> We need to put things in perspective and realize that this a decisive
>> moment. The world is waiting to hear your demands.
>>
>> Let's engage with the nation, and show that we have a concrete vision on how
>> to improve things.
>>
>> Start with a simple demand, and see how people respond. Maybe you'll get it
>> immediately, maybe Obama will say it is impossible, maybe the pundits will
>> debate it... realize that we can start setting the conversation in the
>> nation.
>>
>> Micah
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We are currently drafting collectively, through the democratic process
>>> of the assembly, principles of unity and a statement to the world.
>>> Our power comes from the example we set not from demands.
>>>
>>> Marisa
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:07 PM,  <flux@fluxview.com> wrote:
>>> >  "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA/Congress/FEC/SupremeCourt
>>> > AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that is a
>>> > powerful statement.
>>> >
>>> > Solidarity,
>>> > ~ FluxRostrum
>>> >
>>> > Current Project
>>> > http://MobileBroadcastNews.com
>>> >
>>> > Home Base
>>> > http://Fluxview.com
>>> >
>>> > Quoting Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com>:
>>> >
>>> >> Outreach is not enough, if people don't know why they are coming to the
>>> >> plaza.
>>> >>
>>> >> I really think that you all need to come up with a demand, or a list of
>>> >> demands, that the nation can latch onto and understand.
>>> >>
>>> >> In Madrid, they had two demand committees. One committee formulated the
>>> >> long-term revolutionary anti-capitalist demands and the other committee
>>> >> formulated the short term "reformist" demands.  Right now, the world
>>> >> needs
>>> >> to hear a "reformist" demand come out of the assembly, otherwise
>>> >> everyone
>>> >> is
>>> >> going to start ignoring you.  You can also release your long-term
>>> >> demands,
>>> >> but there needs to be a demand that can be accomplished before you
>>> >> leave
>>> >> the
>>> >> plaza.
>>> >>
>>> >> "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that
>>> >> is
>>> >> a
>>> >> powerful statement.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Micah
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Marisa Holmes
>>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Its absolutely vital that we keep Liberty Plaza.
>>> >>> We need to do outreach to whoever possible.
>>> >>> Also, we will be getting a report today from the
>>> >>> legal team.
>>> >>> Come to the 1pm General Assembly.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Marisa
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Mellow Yellow
>>> >>> <disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> > Union Square has the significance of being a central hub of activity
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > many everyday people as well as homeless and young people who might
>>> >>> > be
>>> >>> more
>>> >>> > ready to join us. This is an outreach and tactical suggestion, in
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> event
>>> >>> > we are up-rooted from liberty plaza. Police brutality will be more
>>> >>> > noted
>>> >>> > amongst New Yorkers at union Sq than by tourists near wall street.
>>> >>> > Our
>>> >>> > message should focus on Wall Street still, if not our physical
>>> >>> > presence.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Just my two cents.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Doug Singsen
>>> >>> > <dougsingsen@gmail.com>
>>> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> But Union Square has no political significance. It wouldn't target
>>> >>> >> Wall
>>> >>> >> St., it would just annoy the people who use it on a daily basis. It
>>> >>> would be
>>> >>> >> much harder to attract broad layers of new people to join the
>>> >>> >> encampment
>>> >>> if
>>> >>> >> we lost the connection to Wall St.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Mellow Yellow <
>>> >>> disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> I would strongly advise marching to Union Square & Occupy. It is
>>> >>> central
>>> >>> >>> enough to gather more support from passers-by. A long march up
>>> >>> >>> Broadway
>>> >>> will
>>> >>> >>> frustrate Police efforts to follow.
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> See you oguys there as soon as I can
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Matthew Presto
>>> >>> >>> <matthew.presto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> The contingency plan which reached consensus on Saturday was that
>>> >>> >>>> if
>>> >>> was
>>> >>> >>>> necessary to move to a new location, that space would be
>>> >>> >>>> determined
>>> >>> >>>> by
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> >>>> tactical committee, and word would be spread to everyone there as
>>> >>> >>>> soon
>>> >>> as
>>> >>> >>>> need be. The tactical committee has determined the next location.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:03 AM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>> If that is true what abt a move to the Titanic Memorial Park or
>>> >>> Battery
>>> >>> >>>>> Park?
>>> >>> >>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com>
>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>> >>> >>>>>> NYPD may have been given permission to vacate liberty plaza
>>> >>> >>>>>> around
>>> >>> 7am
>>> >>> >>>>>> using vagrancy laws, anyone can confirm?
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>

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