From:   Will Canine <willcanine@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:43:37 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Rumor to be confirmed - NYPD
 

due respect to everyone on this email, but you dont get to make this decision. the general assembly (wich includes all of you, and a lot of others as well) does. any attempt from this email group to craft a set of demands or whatever would be disingenuous at best. 



On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Micah about why we need demands, but let's try and keep some perspective on what the size and significance of this encampment is. "The world is waiting to hear your demands." Yes, we are getting a lot of media coverage, but let's not kid ourselves that this is truly a "decisive moment" on a global scale, or that Obama is somehow going to feel the need to personally respond to this (he won't). We are too small for that! In order to grow this movement, when this ends, we are going to need to go back to our jobs, neighborhoods and schools and begin building a lasting movement.

This is (with all due respect to Micah) what was missing from the initial Adbusters call, which was insanely over-optimistic about how many people this could turn out. Adbusters called for 20k on Wall St - we got under 1k at the peak. Luis from Democracia Real Ya, who has been participating in the encampment, has been pointing out how much on-the-ground work went into preparing for Puerta del Sol. We need to be doing the same thing on a daily basis over the long term in order to make a real mass movement possible - and one is imminently possible, but it will take sustained organizing on the ground.

Doug


On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, Marisa and I were both on KPFK's "Uprising Radio" this morning. And Marisa can attest that the host was sympathetic but very critical that there was no simple demand. People are losing interest because they cannot understand WHY to occupywallstreet.

Our power comes from the assembly when the assembly shows the world that the assembly can decide on demands. If the assembly is the model for democracy, then the assembly must be able to set demands.

Can a people's assembly decide on a list of demands or not? If the people's assembly is unable to decide on a list of demands, then that is tantamount to saying it is unable to provide a concrete vision of how to proceed that will inspire the nation.

We need to put things in perspective and realize that this a decisive moment. The world is waiting to hear your demands.

Let's engage with the nation, and show that we have a concrete vision on how to improve things.

Start with a simple demand, and see how people respond. Maybe you'll get it immediately, maybe Obama will say it is impossible, maybe the pundits will debate it... realize that we can start setting the conversation in the nation.

Micah

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com> wrote:
We are currently drafting collectively, through the democratic process
of the assembly, principles of unity and a statement to the world.
Our power comes from the example we set not from demands.

Marisa

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:07 PM,  <flux@fluxview.com> wrote:
>  "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA/Congress/FEC/SupremeCourt
> AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that is a
> powerful statement.
>
> Solidarity,
> ~ FluxRostrum
>
> Current Project
> http://MobileBroadcastNews.com
>
> Home Base
> http://Fluxview.com
>
> Quoting Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com>:
>
>> Outreach is not enough, if people don't know why they are coming to the
>> plaza.
>>
>> I really think that you all need to come up with a demand, or a list of
>> demands, that the nation can latch onto and understand.
>>
>> In Madrid, they had two demand committees. One committee formulated the
>> long-term revolutionary anti-capitalist demands and the other committee
>> formulated the short term "reformist" demands.  Right now, the world needs
>> to hear a "reformist" demand come out of the assembly, otherwise everyone
>> is
>> going to start ignoring you.  You can also release your long-term demands,
>> but there needs to be a demand that can be accomplished before you leave
>> the
>> plaza.
>>
>> "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that is
>> a
>> powerful statement.
>>
>>
>> Micah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Marisa Holmes
>> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Its absolutely vital that we keep Liberty Plaza.
>>> We need to do outreach to whoever possible.
>>> Also, we will be getting a report today from the
>>> legal team.
>>> Come to the 1pm General Assembly.
>>>
>>> Marisa
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Mellow Yellow <disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Union Square has the significance of being a central hub of activity
>>> > with
>>> > many everyday people as well as homeless and young people who might be
>>> more
>>> > ready to join us. This is an outreach and tactical suggestion, in the
>>> event
>>> > we are up-rooted from liberty plaza. Police brutality will be more
>>> > noted
>>> > amongst New Yorkers at union Sq than by tourists near wall street. Our
>>> > message should focus on Wall Street still, if not our physical
>>> > presence.
>>> >
>>> > Just my two cents.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> But Union Square has no political significance. It wouldn't target
>>> >> Wall
>>> >> St., it would just annoy the people who use it on a daily basis. It
>>> would be
>>> >> much harder to attract broad layers of new people to join the
>>> >> encampment
>>> if
>>> >> we lost the connection to Wall St.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Mellow Yellow <
>>> disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I would strongly advise marching to Union Square & Occupy. It is
>>> central
>>> >>> enough to gather more support from passers-by. A long march up
>>> >>> Broadway
>>> will
>>> >>> frustrate Police efforts to follow.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> See you oguys there as soon as I can
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Matthew Presto
>>> >>> <matthew.presto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The contingency plan which reached consensus on Saturday was that if
>>> was
>>> >>>> necessary to move to a new location, that space would be determined
>>> >>>> by
>>> the
>>> >>>> tactical committee, and word would be spread to everyone there as
>>> >>>> soon
>>> as
>>> >>>> need be. The tactical committee has determined the next location.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:03 AM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> If that is true what abt a move to the Titanic Memorial Park or
>>> Battery
>>> >>>>> Park?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> NYPD may have been given permission to vacate liberty plaza around
>>> 7am
>>> >>>>>> using vagrancy laws, anyone can confirm?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>



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