From:   gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:50:17 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Rumor to be confirmed - NYPD
 

The posters and chants have several excellent demands explicitly stated, which could be distilled to one:

Get the corporate money out of politics.  Everything else would follow - health care, holding industrial polluters accountable, fair taxation, etc.

It's the corporate money that is poisoning the discourse.  We don't live in a democracy anymore.  Corporations own the media, all we get is propaganda.  Legislators don't represent their electorate, they are owned by lobbyists.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Doug Singsen <dougsingsen@gmail.com> wrote:
that's one interpretation. you're projecting your own view onto the GA and stating it as fact.


On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that we need a WHY but that doesn't have to take the form of demands.
Assemblies decide on much more than demands.
They are a prefigurative model for a new society.

Marisa

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:24 PM, Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, Marisa and I were both on KPFK's "Uprising Radio" this morning. And
> Marisa can attest that the host was sympathetic but very critical that there
> was no simple demand. People are losing interest because they cannot
> understand WHY to occupywallstreet.
>
> Our power comes from the assembly when the assembly shows the world that the
> assembly can decide on demands. If the assembly is the model for democracy,
> then the assembly must be able to set demands.
>
> Can a people's assembly decide on a list of demands or not? If the people's
> assembly is unable to decide on a list of demands, then that is tantamount
> to saying it is unable to provide a concrete vision of how to proceed that
> will inspire the nation.
>
> We need to put things in perspective and realize that this a decisive
> moment. The world is waiting to hear your demands.
>
> Let's engage with the nation, and show that we have a concrete vision on how
> to improve things.
>
> Start with a simple demand, and see how people respond. Maybe you'll get it
> immediately, maybe Obama will say it is impossible, maybe the pundits will
> debate it... realize that we can start setting the conversation in the
> nation.
>
> Micah
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Marisa Holmes <marisaholmes@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> We are currently drafting collectively, through the democratic process
>> of the assembly, principles of unity and a statement to the world.
>> Our power comes from the example we set not from demands.
>>
>> Marisa
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:07 PM,  <flux@fluxview.com> wrote:
>> >  "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA/Congress/FEC/SupremeCourt
>> > AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that is a
>> > powerful statement.
>> >
>> > Solidarity,
>> > ~ FluxRostrum
>> >
>> > Current Project
>> > http://MobileBroadcastNews.com
>> >
>> > Home Base
>> > http://Fluxview.com
>> >
>> > Quoting Micah White <micahmwhite@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >> Outreach is not enough, if people don't know why they are coming to the
>> >> plaza.
>> >>
>> >> I really think that you all need to come up with a demand, or a list of
>> >> demands, that the nation can latch onto and understand.
>> >>
>> >> In Madrid, they had two demand committees. One committee formulated the
>> >> long-term revolutionary anti-capitalist demands and the other committee
>> >> formulated the short term "reformist" demands.  Right now, the world
>> >> needs
>> >> to hear a "reformist" demand come out of the assembly, otherwise
>> >> everyone
>> >> is
>> >> going to start ignoring you.  You can also release your long-term
>> >> demands,
>> >> but there needs to be a demand that can be accomplished before you
>> >> leave
>> >> the
>> >> plaza.
>> >>
>> >> "WE WILL NOT LEAVE LIBERTY PLAZA UNTIL OBAMA AGREES TO XXXXX!" -- that
>> >> is
>> >> a
>> >> powerful statement.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Micah
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Marisa Holmes
>> >> <marisaholmes@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Its absolutely vital that we keep Liberty Plaza.
>> >>> We need to do outreach to whoever possible.
>> >>> Also, we will be getting a report today from the
>> >>> legal team.
>> >>> Come to the 1pm General Assembly.
>> >>>
>> >>> Marisa
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Mellow Yellow
>> >>> <disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Union Square has the significance of being a central hub of activity
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > many everyday people as well as homeless and young people who might
>> >>> > be
>> >>> more
>> >>> > ready to join us. This is an outreach and tactical suggestion, in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> event
>> >>> > we are up-rooted from liberty plaza. Police brutality will be more
>> >>> > noted
>> >>> > amongst New Yorkers at union Sq than by tourists near wall street.
>> >>> > Our
>> >>> > message should focus on Wall Street still, if not our physical
>> >>> > presence.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Just my two cents.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Doug Singsen
>> >>> > <dougsingsen@gmail.com>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> But Union Square has no political significance. It wouldn't target
>> >>> >> Wall
>> >>> >> St., it would just annoy the people who use it on a daily basis. It
>> >>> would be
>> >>> >> much harder to attract broad layers of new people to join the
>> >>> >> encampment
>> >>> if
>> >>> >> we lost the connection to Wall St.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Mellow Yellow <
>> >>> disorganizecm@gmail.com>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> I would strongly advise marching to Union Square & Occupy. It is
>> >>> central
>> >>> >>> enough to gather more support from passers-by. A long march up
>> >>> >>> Broadway
>> >>> will
>> >>> >>> frustrate Police efforts to follow.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> See you oguys there as soon as I can
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Matthew Presto
>> >>> >>> <matthew.presto@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> The contingency plan which reached consensus on Saturday was that
>> >>> >>>> if
>> >>> was
>> >>> >>>> necessary to move to a new location, that space would be
>> >>> >>>> determined
>> >>> >>>> by
>> >>> the
>> >>> >>>> tactical committee, and word would be spread to everyone there as
>> >>> >>>> soon
>> >>> as
>> >>> >>>> need be. The tactical committee has determined the next location.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:03 AM, grimwomyn <grimwomyn@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> If that is true what abt a move to the Titanic Memorial Park or
>> >>> Battery
>> >>> >>>>> Park?
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Lauren <celliwig@gmail.com>
>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> NYPD may have been given permission to vacate liberty plaza
>> >>> >>>>>> around
>> >>> 7am
>> >>> >>>>>> using vagrancy laws, anyone can confirm?
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>


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