From:   Tarak Kauff <>
Sent time:   Friday, September 23, 2011 10:17:17 AM
Subject:   Re: [september17discuss] Re: Does everyone know about this "counter protest?"

I have been arrested for civil resistance a good number of times and also organized quite a few effective actions with Veteran For Peace and others. Not taking any sides in this discussion below (I don't know the specifics) but we do not treat the police, in general, as enemies. That approach is totally counter productive. Yes, stand up for your 1st amendment rights, but abusive behavior, attitude and language directed at the cops is counter-productive and quite often instigated by provocateurs. It is also not keeping with the principles of nonviolent action. 

And I am aware (very much) that being in police custody is no picnic and quite often police power is abused. However, if they act like abusive asses, we do not have to respond in kind. When a person or persons become abusive they lose their dignity. I hope as a movement and as individuals, we can maintain our dignity and not fall to that level. 

We do recognize, who the police work for (the system) who they serve very often as as a front line of oppression for, that there is corruption. racism, brutality and bigotry within the police force, yet we also recognize that there are many decent, hard working honest men and women on the force - also many who are sympathetic to what most of us stand for and I have met many like that on the force. The police are not the enemy. The corporate capitalist system controlling every aspect of out lives is. Please do not assume that all cops are bastards - they are not. We will greatly further this revolutionary movement if we do not automatically set up a we vs them atmosphere, especially with individual police. 

At some point, we will need the police (or at least some of them) as part of the working class, to come over to our side. 

Again, it is one thing to stand up firmly to police abuse in any form but we do not have to assume that all individual cops are automatically in that place. Of course, if you out front give them a lot of shit, they will be more predisposed to act that way. 

That said, keep up the great and inspiring revolutionary work you are all doing. I am uplifted when I am down there with all of you. See you all this weekend. 

In Solidarity,

Veterans For Peace

On Sep 23, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Harrison Schultz wrote:

THIS IS AWESOME!!!  I'm so there!


On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:49 AM, grimwomyn <> wrote:
yeah-- it takes all types in this world.... sorry to hear it... stay strong this wont be the last nasty comment that is sent, spoken, shouted, or broadcast.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:40 AM, gail zawacki <> wrote:
My guess is no one will be there.  It's just a stupid joke.  Look at the nasty comment I got on my blog post about Mariel Moshiri.  I won't let it through moderation because her mother says she's really depressed and it might upset her more.  I don't want her to see it.  The mere fact some random person took the time to write at this length is disturbing:

Well Gail won't post my other comment. Apparently she's not as big of a fan of free speech as she would purport. Maybe she'll send this on to you though Mariel. 

The clip clearly shows you swearing like a drunken sailor, threatening to sue right from the get go. The language continues on here. If you get confrontational with a cop in a potentially volatile situation you run the risk of being arrested. I'm glad you cooperated once at the station, apparently the fact that they didn't let you go simply because you swore at them and told them you would sue must have made you realize it was time to wise up.

I'm sure you hate the system that we have set up in America but you seem very ready to use that system to sue the NYPD for all that they have. Good luck with that, your top 10% IQ clearly doesn't allow for self-reflection as if you see the hypocrite that you are.

A cop screamed you were suicidal? I will 100% guarantee that did not happen. Possibly in your head but not in reality. You didn't know where you were? Well that will happen on your big day out in the big city where you act in a way where the police have end up placing you in custody.

NYPD is a great department. A lot of them died in the towers that used to cast a shadow over the area where you were arrested. Whatever you think the reason was for that day those people that died were just working stiffs trying to get home to their families that day and it didn't happen. They try to do that everyday and make a real impact on people and this world. Not a paper impact like you and your merry band of protesters made the other day. The reason they detained you was to help insure that they made it home that day as well. Remember that in the future as you exercise the rights provided to you by this American system, flaws and all, act with the decency expected of our citizens and you'll make it home yourself at the end of the night with your dignity and soundness of mind in tact. 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Lauren <> wrote:
I honestly doubt there will be more than a dozen people. If there were
more, at least, I'd take it as an opportunity for education.