From:   Patrick Bruner <pmubruner@gmail.com>
Sent time:   Monday, September 26, 2011 12:00:11 AM
To:   september17@googlegroups.com
Subject:   SPAM-MED: Re: [september17discuss] DEMANDS
 

We need to stop talking about what to get rid of, we need to stop

talking about how to condense our message. We are not authoritarians.

You're listening to our enemies. Our allies understand our message of

general rage, look at the comments on the internet over the last

thirty-six hours. We have a chance for an actual revolution. If we

start playing at parliamentarian procedure we're boned. Maybe we'll

get a carrot. But we can't change the system from within the system.

That's the whole point. That's our message.

 

We need to maintain our message of general conversation, general rage,

general discontent. The entire point of our movement is direct

democratic action. We're already winning doing what we're doing. Five

days ago I was begging the assembly to come to a single demand and I'm

saying this: we no longer need one. The message is: what is YOUR one

demand?

 

Everyone already knows we want universal health care, egalitarian rights,

universal shelter, universal sustenance. If we voice these things in

an "official" capacity we will dilute our message, and we will

whither. Right now we are something that has never been seen before.

The minute we revert back to what they can understand they win and we

lose. I promise you that.

 

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:54 AM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's awesome.  GA at 7 AM or PM?

>

> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

> wrote:

>>

>> We got this as the first item agenda for tomorrow GA at 7. I have been

>> following the online chats and consulting with people on the ground and I

>> think the current draft is representative of the collective thought. It is

>> an advanced version to the original draft that I posted, in another thread,

>> from the team that worked on this a couple of days ago. We will try to get

>> it also online before the GA discussion.

>> Cesar

>>

>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Winter Siroco <wintersiroco@gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi I have spent all Sunday  at Liberty Plaza with the draft that we were

>>> elaborating in another thread that started as 5 demands.... I think that if

>>> the subject is the same we should keep the thread instead of starting new

>>> ones, so that we are all in the same page.

>>> I did not go for discussion/approval because of a misunderstanding of

>>> facilitators. During the morning assembly the people was very receptive go

>>> establish some general goals. For the same reasons stated here.

>>> I can not pass the draft because it ended having the input from the

>>> people at Liberty Plaza in paper. We typed in a computer/projector setup but

>>> the draft was not mailed to me. In any case it includes the major ideas

>>> posted here, but with other wording at this point.

>>> Beneath that, three points of what our goals:

>>> Stop special treatment for banks, corporations, and the super-rich;

>>> Create a real democracy of the people, by the people, and for the

>>> people;

>>> Build solidarity and economic justice for all

>>> Nevertheless, I would not present this together with an strategy to

>>> accomplish those goals. The strategies will be more contentious, but

>>> nevertheless should start to be elaborated, and probably subdivided by

>>> teams.

>>> Cesar

>>>

>>>

>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Jon Good <therealjongood@gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> I believe we can't keep coming up with interim solutions. The world is

>>>> watching us right now.  We need real demands now.  Something everyone from

>>>> college professors to 8th graders at NYC public schools can understand and

>>>> support.

>>>> Here is my proposal for a sort of "hierarchy of information" where we

>>>> start with one overarching message:

>>>> Democracy for the people, not the corporations.

>>>> Beneath that, three points of what our goals:

>>>> Stop special treatment for banks, corporations, and the super-rich;

>>>> Create a real democracy of the people, by the people, and for the

>>>> people;

>>>> Build solidarity and economic justice for all

>>>> And below that, the specific action items:

>>>> - Stop the housing crisis. Halt all foreclosures due to predatory

>>>> lending and huge medical bills.

>>>>

>>>> - Stop gambling people's savings on Wall Street. Reinstate the 1933

>>>> Glass-Steagall Act that separated investment banking from commercial

>>>> banking.

>>>>

>>>> - Tax all financial transactions as we tax all goods through a sales

>>>> tax. Introduce a Robin Hood Tax on all financial transactions now.

>>>>

>>>> - Repeal the Tax Reconciliation Act (the Bush tax cuts) now. Pair the

>>>> taxes on long-term capital gains to the income tax.

>>>>

>>>> - Corporations are not and will never be people. End corporate

>>>> personhood under the 14th Amendment.

>>>>

>>>> - Ban all corporate funding to political candidates. Introduce a tax

>>>> bonus that allows each taxpayer to donate the same amount of money to a

>>>> candidate or party of his or her choice.

>>>>

>>>> - Radical reform of the electoral system. Enable new political

>>>> formations to compete on an equal footing with the two major parties.

>>>>

>>>> I hate to admit it, but words like "oppression" and even "peace" really

>>>> sets off many among the 99% of the American heartland who still think we're

>>>> just a bunch of crazy hippies.  We're not all a bunch of crazy hippies and

>>>> we have to prove that to the 99% we claim (rightfully) to represent. But

>>>> that's 300 million people we have to stay in touch with.

>>>> I also think that "The 99%" is a good thing to start referring to

>>>> ourselves.

>>>> Solidarity,

>>>> Jon

>>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:27 AM, Matthew Bralow <mbralow@gmail.com>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> should be brought up at tomorrow eve's GA! hopefully we can come to

>>>>> some type of interim resolution by end of meeting

>>>>>

>>>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:23 AM, gail zawacki <witsendnj@gmail.com>

>>>>> wrote:

>>>>> > Agreed.  I am in contact with very long-time activists and this is at

>>>>> > the

>>>>> > core of their criticism.

>>>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Chuck Schumer <csr2091@gmail.com>

>>>>> > wrote:

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> As I have noted publicly in a number of GA's, I am downright sick,

>>>>> >> tired

>>>>> >> and embarrassed of the lack of concrete demands. Without specific

>>>>> >> demands,

>>>>> >> this is nothing but a glorified camping trip. All the negative press

>>>>> >> critiques this occupation for its lack of specific demands. With

>>>>> >> concrete,

>>>>> >> reasonable, well-explained and well-researched demands, we will be

>>>>> >> taken far

>>>>> >> more seriously and have more legitimacy with which to respond to

>>>>> >> attacks and

>>>>> >> police brutality.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> I understand that there is a process and that that process is slow.

>>>>> >> However, I have heard so many other unimportant things addressed at

>>>>> >> the GA,

>>>>> >> and Saturday night (when the energy from the march was so high!)

>>>>> >> there were

>>>>> >> two concerts going on at either end of the plaza but no productive

>>>>> >> work

>>>>> >> being done. At the very least, we must publish an explanation of WHY

>>>>> >> there

>>>>> >> are no demands yet and HOW those demands are being formulated.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> I'm writing this in part to relieve and express my frustration, but

>>>>> >> also

>>>>> >> to make it extremely clear that I consider this issue enough to

>>>>> >> consider

>>>>> >> implementing a block on my very involvement in this occupation. I

>>>>> >> can't keep

>>>>> >> justifying the work and money I am putting in to this movement,

>>>>> >> however

>>>>> >> beautiful and inspiring and joyous and necessary it is if there is

>>>>> >> no clear

>>>>> >> goal.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> That's all I have to say about that, I suppose. I know everyone is

>>>>> >> working

>>>>> >> so hard, and I love and support all of you. Nonetheless, this issue

>>>>> >> needs to

>>>>> >> be addressed immediately.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >

>>>>> >

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

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